“The cultural accomplishments of a nation define its character and individuality.” Where are Kuwait’s Cultural Museums, Modern Art Museums, Opera Halls or Theatre’s where musicians can play? This is the type of infrastucture that a government should build for his nation, because it is his duty to make sure that the cultural aspects of his society flourish. Kuwait censorship is an obstacle to ‘The Arts’ and is suffocating struggling artists in this nation.
Dar al Athar has all of those look it up
@aaa As long as you continue to let them off the hook your nation will remain years behind the rest of the GCC.
You’re right, let’s enhance our local culture by inviting Madonna
No lets enhance our local culture by inviting local musicians to play. Build an industry and stop being insecure.
And alow them to dress inappropriately and sing about immoral things?
Most western type music always heads to this direction.
Sometimes yes, there is jazz danceing with women wearing tight and short clothes.
@Jasim are you kidding me? If people wanna dance, nobody is forcing you to go. You can CHOOSE to do what you want. What certain people here want is a choice, not an instant ban. It has nothing to do with culture, but choice. We don’t live 1000 years ago; we live today.
Immoral? If you can’t stand women in tight clothes, by all means, stop looking at them. Don’t take your family, but don’t try and defend the censorship on something as trivial as immoral/short clothes.
Plus, how is one person to say that one thing is acceptable or not. So long as some people enjoy this, why should YOU, the person who IS NOT GOING TO ATTEND these things giving so much of a shit about it?
You seem to be the bright star in our country’s future Jasim.
@aaa Madonna is all you could think of? Nitpicking? You sound so childish. Even if madonna were to come… SO WHAT? there is no rulebook saying that you HAVE to buy a ticket and go see her. Again, more people who can’t stand anyone letting loose once in a while.
Chill out haters :)
1. When you give people 2 choices, they are more inclinded to choose the bad one. Therefor, we should not give them that second choice. Hence the many problems we have in modern socieities.
2. So if I dont want to see women in tight clothes then i have to stay home all the time? including my family?
Doesnt sound logical. Why should we change our ways because others want to change there’s?
3. We are a community with morals, and we should not have to bend a knee for some minority groups who wish to engage in immoral behavior.
Jasim, who are WE? why do you have the right to choose who see’s what? Do you know that the human body is, through evolution, susceptible to have sex? Do you know that despite your thought that god created us perfectly, we have so many goddamn flaws? One of those is a tendency to be very sexual, which can only harm by ensuring our survival as a race. Now, you want to tell me that you should have a stronghold on what is right and what is wrong?
If you were offered a bad deal or a good one, you’re telling me that most people would go for the bad one? based on what evidence? If you gave people the choice to dress as they saw fit, you think we would all run around naked? Where is the evidence for any of your claims? Considering Denmark is a highly secular and non-believing society, please show me their flaws. I am dying to see where shit goes wrong.
2. Really? tight clothes are the things that make you cry? All it takes for Jasim to feel like he’s been violated is not to see people wearing tight clothes? give me a break. Think long and hard as to weather you’ve been TAIGHT to think the way you do, or if you came to if from your own accord. What if I was offended by women wearing clothes that are too loose; i find that it offends the human form.
3. This “minority” are citizens of the same country you live in. If you have the right to oppress, then we want the right to liberty. Bending a Knee? Please, a message based on fear of this or that is not one that will last too long.
Plus, if the dark ages (golden ages?) were so damn good, then why did people shut them out and change? if they were so undeniably good, and people simply counld’t resist the good, then explain how we are here.
I am sorry for the long reply, but you are part of a group that is as hypocritical as a group gets. You want what suits you and you alone. You are self-righteous yet you don’t understand other peoples’ sincerity. Nobody wants to walk around naked, but if live music is going to turn the world into animals, then we are beyond saviour. On a side note, we have the internet. I’m sure people have already heard all the music you are talking about. :)
good luck with your life man, you are going to need it!
Dar Al-Athar does not showcase pop or jazz, except very rarely.. and lets face it, it only has free reign to do what it wants because of who’s behind it
I know you just used them just as an example. but a cultural museum, modern art museum do exist. Opera hall has been called for but still just in the idea stage. National theaters are being built. Dar al Athar is renovating a huge building in the National museum to house their collection (as far as I know). And yes, the laws are a bit too harsh in terms of art and culture but that’s democracy and that’s what’s the majority want as is reflected in the outcome of the parliamentary elections. That’s what you get for having it 5 instead of 25. It will only get worse if it becomes one.
What a garbage mentality.
What a slave to the West.
So a country is automatically cultured if it has museums and opera halls? Did such things exist in the ancient Arab empires?
Why the fuck should opera halls be a staple in the region? It’s not Arab at all.
‘The Arts’. More Western terminology.
Go to LanDaN if you want to be a pretentious artsy snob.
Completely Agree with you
What, in your mind, should we do to be cultured here, then?
I do not think what was mentioned here was that only these two things would make the country cultured. But we have nothing of culture here besides food and sheesha.
Also… it is not fair to citizens of a country to not have any way to pass the time or entertain themselves. There is literally nothing to do if you do not want to eat or smoke. Don’t tell me “go to someone’s house” as that, to the majority, is not something to do. We do not maintain parks, we barely maintain walking areas (nothing besides the area by the scientific center) There are no halls for performances or such in any consistent form. I do see why we are so high up in the world for cases of obesity and diabetes, because we literally have nothing else to do but eat ourselves to death.
Slave to the west? Wanting to have thing to do and absorb and enjoy in one’s own country is being a slave to the west?
Who is anyone to tell another what one can or cannot do, as long as what you are doing is not affecting your rights in anyway?
And as far as people saying that the majorities views are represented by those in parliament… I think we all know this not to be true.
So many projects, so many ventures that would be great for the country, have been halted for years, some even decades. The airport was supposed to get revamped back in the 80s, they barely are finishing up the paperwork now. Road rebuilds and expansions… haven’t seen many changes since the 80s. Silk City… still a pile of sand dust. Housing for Kuwaitis… still takes up to 12 years to get a house. And you also cannot rent unless you are married.
List goes on.
Sure, financially, the country almost takes care of its own. Unless you are American, then your pay rate is usually triple what a Kuwaiti makes, but in almost any other aspect… the country, and those running it, are not doing a good job of taking care of the needs of the citizens.
That was depressing to watch.
u can always re-watch the borat national anthem to cheer you up ;)
Thank you BBC for bringing our voices out ! many musicians go outside of Kuwait just to perform live , how sad can this be…
The guy playing the guitar on the left used to be in my school KES… Half Kuwaiti Half British … He was on watan TV Whats On
How many ppl can Dar al Athar accommodate ? And does anyone know that can accommodate say around 3000 ppl?
Cheers Mark for posting this-
At Kuwait Music, its this sort of awareness we worked so hard to build over the last 18 months and the fruits are finally paying off, as the BBC found out about the musicians through our site.
Censorship will continue in the way that it does here in Kuwait, however as long as we work within the boundaries of the law, I dont see why projects such as Acoustica, Kuwait Music, Avant – Garde and others cannot flourish and build a sustainable music industry in the country.
To build the music industry here, Kuwait needs to realize that its not top 10 international artists, Billboards, or favourite DJ’s that will lay building blocks.. but the local musicians who make their own music and are commercially driven to back themselves up and perform at events.
funny enough, no one so far from the live music organizers knows what the rules are.
Also, if it’s because of the law that some live performances are canceled, such as the aLive 2010 and the Rock Concert at the AIS, then why are these events given permissions and licenses and then at the last minute someone just decides that: “Oh you know what? we don’t feel like letting you have this run, so we’re withdrawing your persmission back, sorry tough luck”. Yes it’s as simple as that.
If the law was enforced, we would be having MANY live performances in Kuwait, but everything is relationships and wasta.
my point of view not of Kuwait Music’s
As per Kuwait law live concerts are allowed ! The perform should wear decent clothes and strictly no dancing !
What I have found here is what people say and what actually happens is very opposite. They may say they say they allow concerts, but where are the concerts. Some guy playing a harp in the lobby of the Hilton? This is not they type of concert that the majority of the people want and in this video the government guy states that this is according to Sharia Law, but Kuwait does not have Sharia Law implemented, this parliament wants it implemented. The planes are packed with young people everytime there is a concert in Dubai, because these kids want these types of concerts in this country. I think that the censorship laws only please a minority in this nation and the majority seem to want a different nation. SO when’s the revolution?
” I think that the censorship laws only please a minority in this nation and the majority seem to want a different nation.”
If that was true, then we wouldn’t have the current parliament members. Clearly Majority wants such laws.
the whole parliament members have passed their expiration date, we need new blood.
Mojo do you even stay in Kuwait that you made this comment ? Cause if it was minority then the parliament wouldn’t had Islamist as majority !
Parliament memebers were voted by the majority, get your head stright.
The majority was/is stupid, most people cannot think for themselves and just vote for the person that they are told to vote for, it is that simple. I am not saying everyone should drop their hijab or everyone should cover up, by the pace we are going at I will not be surprised if men started wearing hijabs as well!
If the majority dont want immoral music in their land, then they dont want it. Its thats simple.
Jasim, define Immoral for us please?
Any behavior which causes harm to one’s self or others whether direct or indirectly.
Or as defined by people of a perticular society or relgious belif, in this case is Kuwait/Islam.
The first definition is the one I follow since it is inline with our relgion.
I remember you said music or concerts causes immoral acts like women wearing tights. Then you should ask to close down the malls, cinemas and restaurants, because these ‘immoral’ people have taken over eveyrwhere!!
You don’t have to listen “immoral” music,just stay home.Its that simple.And let tose who like music and appreciate art enjoy.
But thats not whats best for society. Since we live together we must also take care of each of there by preventing our selfs from being involved in such immoral things.
I think we need to close down all the restraunts and coffee shops as well. Lots of people wearing immoral clothing there :)
Also, clothing shops. they sell immoral clothing there.
ALSO! Places where they sell underwear, because someone may walk around in those.
ALSO!!! Anyplace selling knives and such, because you may stab someone with them at some point.
ALSO!!!!!! Any place that sells ANYTHING. Because you MAY have someone walking in there that might be tempted to steal something. And according to this Jasim gentleman, we should never present a choice to someone when one of the choices could be bad.
Which means we should not go anywhere where we could interact with one another, because the choice of murder and rape does exist, and if there are places for people to be social, the urge for that might prove to great :)
looool @ Omicron !! you forgot the Diwaniyaass too :P
We don’t have to lesson, but we don’t want to sell it here as well. I don’t want my children or my younger siblings buying CDs of Lady Gaga or the likes of her. For god sake’s is there anyone here that can turn off their own selfishness for one moment and think reasonably? Do you honestly wish your daughter or son become someone nuts like Lady Gaga or eat a paper in Letterman’s his own show? I don’t want some singer like Rihanna who walk half naked to be my daughter’s role model. And don’t tell me “Well, you should tech your daughter how to pick her role model” because even if I teach her that, she will still be influenced by the media coverage she gets, her friends love her so she must act like them as well, and that’s just wrong. We all loved many celebrity for the wrong reasons.
And pleas, don’t tell me or anyone who don’t like these thing Like Jasim here that we don’t HAVE to listen or I should stay at my home! Who are you to tell modest people to stay home? I’m not the immoral one, I’m not the one who walk half naked in the streets or the malls. Respect your self and respect others feelings.
And one more thing, I’m not against music, I’m against immoral music from the likes of Rihanna who only care about money and fame.
How many times are we supposed to say nobody wants lady gaga or whatever names you guys follow? Simple, we want local bands to play. They know the culture and they are not breaking any rules, their lyrics are not offensive and they definitely will not wear tight. PROMISE! Is it that difficult?
dude, you are nuts for thinking that through listening to Lady GaGa you will instantly become nuts! If your kids will start wearing ridiculous clothing and such for listening to an artist, then maybe they were just parented poorly.
And do you REALLY think that your daughter needs live music to be influenced by rihanna? Wake up call fool: she probably is listening to everything she ever wanted to thru something called the internet. And YES lets NOT be selfish. Just because you are crazy enough to think that if people saw other people live concerts they will act like them, doesn’t mean that the rest of us shouldnt be able to watch them live. We are responsible people, you arent, so keep your kids and your self AT HOME if they were to hypothetically come.
You can ACTUALLY prevent your daughter from going to a live concert, but i bet it makes you cringe to know somebody out there is having fun and enjoying their life while you rot at home praying for ever and judging everyone that passes by.
Man, seriously, show me where people have walked around naked after listneing to music… I am DYING to know. I really wanna go and make sure, becasue it seems like in lebanon, dubai, bahrain, the entire western civilization is littered with people coming out of concerts and ripping off their clothes immediately. I WANT TO SEE THIS PLEASE!!!
I agree fully. Kuwait doesn’t run on Sharia law so i don’t know what that blockheaded censor is talking about. He’s just pulling stuff out of his ass, like most of the censors here. Technically concerts are NOT illegal here but there always seems to be some people ruining the whole scene bc they of their own personal biases. Typical bs that continues to get worse day by day.
We look good don’t we :P
I hope this is a step forward; kuwait-music.com is the platform for music in the country.
And Avant-Garde Music Projects (owned by me) has already organized two successful music events open to the public and here’s looking for more.
Be optimistic folks!!
couldnt agree more Ali!
guy at the censoring office:
“uh-oh!….cleavage on the cover! Won’t make it!”
“Damn!….look at those abs! Akeed steroids and won’t make it!”
looks at Lady Gaga’s album.. “What the…what is she wearing?! Won’t make it, lol!”
He’s job is to basically judge books by their covers!
No, the guys jobs is to determine morals. And these western singers are immoral, which we dont want here in Kuwait.
You want to be isolated from the world?
You can listen to all this stuff and still be a good person and not be “morally degraded”.
I suppose you want Haifa to be banned too yeah?
All of a sudden “Music” determines if we are isolated from the world???
First of all not everyone can listen to immoral music and stay moral.
Secondly immoral music isnt good for you anyway and by listening to it you are supporting those who create it.
As for your last comment, Haifa needs to not only banned, she needs to be whipped 10 times more than a fornicator.
Then perhaps we are on the extreme opposite side of things.
By the way; can you define immoral music?
Immoral music: Music which contains messages and/or lyrics involving bad behaviors (as catagorized by our relgion), alcohol, drugs, fornication, dressing inappropratly, killings, bad language, and ect.
A person could write a book on immoral music, so i cant write everything because there is too much.
You said Jassim:
“alcohol, drugs, fornication, dressing inappropratly, killings, bad language, and ect.”
When was the last time you saw any of these things be part of a live music act in Kuwait from local musicians? Not trying to be defensive, just want to understand your reasoning.
Just because it hasnt happend it kuwait yet, does not mean that it wont. Slowly live concerts will give way for more freedom to do them.
As for the things I listed, i mean that they are in the lyrics.
@Jasim Ever notice how your women dress – stop being primadona’s and get your head out of the cloud. When you guys go to the UAE, you are not percieved as conservative.
Those women who dress inappropraity are hypocrites and even those that change after going to the UAE.
So why should we change our laws for hypocrites??
On the subject of hypocrisy, why are there no laws for human rights abuse then? For equal employment rights? For immigration rules?
Lets not start talking about hypocrisy, cos it is present everywhere you look here.
I agree,the government is corrupt and people are lazy. And they are hypocrits.
and do you trust these random, often low-paid ministry drones to say what is right and what is immoral? Do you know what this censor for instance does in his free time? how can u give a few people the power to determine morality for a whole county? These issues should be handles by a group of WELL diverse people or in the parliament. not just one man’s job.
also music and films have many interpretations that vary from one person to another. How is this fair to lump them all into “immoral” or “moral” ? how does it even make common sense? doe no one have a brain to think for themselves? or are we all just robots that can be easily programed to do bad things regardless of how we are raised.
This almost insults a person’s intelligence really, are we that backwards that we can’t judge what’s good or bad ourselves, we need to hire ppl to do it for us? WOW my mind is kiwn
Every thing in Kuwait is now censored… Everyone in Kuwait is struggling with every thing.
Government new role is to make people suffer while the few become richer.
Oh for God sake grow up! Suffering?! What kind of suffering? Are you talking about not listening to songs from people like Lady Gaga? For God sake’s some people in Africa are dying because they can’t find food and you complain for not having Lady Gaga or Rihanna or who ever they are? Grow up.
If Kuwait is a free country like it’s claimed, then there must be the freedom of listening to music and having live concerts of local bands who do not offend the local culture and society, otherwise it’s not.
My wife and I went to the Filipino Independence Day celebrations several times and there was minimal dancing there, but not over the top. So hypocritical about enforcing the laws. We still see smoking in the malls and restaurants, we still see people driving with their kids in the front seats and hanging out the windows, still see cell phones used while driving.
Very good point Longhorn- Its funny how the rules are only adhered to when its convenient.
Who said these are fine issues? Neither of these issues are fine! I don’t want someone smoke at my face when I go to the mall but sadly it’s still not being well done, but that does not mean I agree about it.
That censor is simply the wrong man in the wrong place. It is not a matter of enforcing morals, but having the right judgment and exposure to arts and music of all kinds. He can’t do his job properly if all he looks for is a slightly risque album cover. The law clearly does not prohibit any live music performances, but the government is so terrified of Islamists – and people like Jasim above – making noise that it grants permission one day and then cancels it. Nobody has the guts to say the law allows and protects the arts. This censor is so obviously planted at the ministry by Islamist MPs
And yes whenever there’s a big live event in Dubai or Beirut, the planes are packed with Kuwaitis of all ages hungry for some live entertainment. But is there a critical mass in Kuwait that will spend the required money to generate a profit out of holding big concerts here? Remember the UAE has a HUGE expat community that sustains all these events and generate big revenues, Madonna just added an extra date due to high demand!
But in Kuwait, I fear we simply don’t have enough people to sustain large international concerts in say Jaber Stadium for example. And mainly because many Kuwaitis simply won’t go to concerts here and prefer to go abroad if they can, where they won’t be harassed by govt officials telling them they cant dance. Add to that the snob factor of not wanting to mix with “hailag” and the bragging rights of seeing an international act elsewhere.
Accept your destiny folks, we live in the Islamic equivalent of the Bible Belt (look it up if you don’t know what that means). Kuwait is fast becoming a small town with a small town mentality. If you want culture and arts, you must either accept that it will always be a struggle or just give up and go to the big cities when you can
Most of these live music concerts and singers are considered immoral by the majority of Kuwaitis and the government. And if there are some people who dont care about such stuff, then they can go do it else where. Its that simple.
An entire country should not have to compinsate or bend a knee for a few people. Not to mention this is a Muslim country backed by Islamic belifs which we follow. So im not going to feel sorry for those hypocrites who dont give a damn about morals.
No society in the world needs music to develop or survive. There are thousands of other ways to be entertained.
If you’re the type who believes that all music is haram and the work of the devil… then I can’t continue this discussion with you
Not all music is haram. A famous muslim scholar once said that the only music that is haram is that which has bad influnce (messages ect), that which makes a person forget his faith, and that which makes a person want to dance.
Forget his faith forever or for the duration of the song? Please clarify
To gradually forget his faith and/or make him go against his faith.
If a song is going to make him forget his faith, then his faith must be very weak to begin with
It doesnt work that way.
Even people with strong faith could lose it all because of their surroundings, side affects of certain actions, or friends.
You said: “which has bad influnce (messages ect), that which makes a person forget his faith, and that which makes a person want to dance.”
So, how would you classify instrumental rock? (Joe Satriani for example)? It doesnt contain bad messages nor does it make you want to dance.
Is it immoral?
According to the scholar then it is not immoral.
Do you have an opinion of your own?Or it’s only according to scholars?
According to scholars ofcourse, as I still cannot find illogical answers from the ones I follow.
Also my opinions must always be based on logic, nothing less.
Did you support the closing of Shurooq Amin’s art exhibition?
Question directed to Jasim.
Depends. Did the gallery have any message or picture which went against the teaching of our faith?
We don’t want Madonna, Rihanna or Michael Jackson. Oh wait he died.
We want kuwaitis, expats living in kuwait, who write their own music, and very well understand the local culture and refrain from making any offense, we want these people to have a chance to perform in live concerts.
They will not ask for millions, but anything that earns them a living will dfeinitely make them happy.
Jasim, you have an old mentality. There are a lot of educated people right now and they will never agree with you, live and let live as the saying goes. If they are immoral and do bad things it is not for anyone to judge, I am sure you heard of judgement day.
This not some “old mentality”. You say “live and let live”, however in our relgion we have no such saying. In Islam a fornicator is punished, a person who uses drugs is punished, a person who helps others fornicate or sells drugs is also punished.
There is judgement in the present time, otherwise why would God give us these laws? Its not for personal use, its to be used as a community to keep away the spread of immoral actions and thoughts.
Well too bad for you the Kuwaiti constitution is not based on Shari3a law.
Some of it is based on shair3a. And its not too bad for me, as I have nothing to lose obviously.
Im showing you the real faith and how it works. And how people say they are of a certain faith and dont practice. Hyporcracy is a real sickness.
It’s not your call to choose. We all abide by the rules, and like I said in the interview, we play within the law.
I never said im choosing anything. So not sure what you mean?
Jasim, I sincerely believe it is important to understand the context in which music is played here (I speak for local musicians and not international artists) . The local musician pool is not looking out to rebel against sharia law by evangelizing alcohol, drugs and prostitution in their music.
They simply need an outlet to let their talents shine. I dont think the guy who invented the electric guitar had a preconceived plan in his head to fight all religious values. He just wanted people to express their feelings through these amazingly crafted machines. This is all we want. We are all adults and understand the values and virtues with which we were raised and as long as we are abiding by the constitutional law of the country, I do not understand why a music industry cannot thrive here without breaking any laws and yet appeasing religious quarters.
Look at indonesia and malaysia for example- Both largely hardline Islamic govts , but still allow music to thrive in their countries.
I believe what you are fighting against is not music, but freedom itself.
Even these local singers talk about things that go against there own faith. So why would you want to listen to a hypocrit? Its so obvious.
Secondly, too much freedom is never good. This total freedom of expresson is what makes people to think and accept immoral behaviors.
I hope it NEVER EVER is based on it. I love my country, but if we wanted to live in oppression, we’d just go to the other side of the border.
Islam is oppression? You clearly dont understand then.
Dude, islam may or may not be oppression. BUT, ruling by one religion is. We should have a system where your beliefs are practiced by YOU PRIVATELY (there are mosques too, so no worries there), but who wants a gov’t run exclusively by one sect of one relgiion? There are people of different faiths and they should all be able to practice whatever they want to. The government and laws should NOT be based on laws derived many years ago, but rather through consencus and reasoning.
Ask yourself: is your faith based on how you show others or what you do youself between you and God? If it’s others, then I understand that you want the whole country to oblige by old laws. If yourself, then you should see what I mean.
If most of citizens in a country are muslim, then whats wrong if they have an islamic govnerment? Its not oppressing.
Islam is not like other religions where is only “faith”, its a complete way of life. So when someone calls them self a muslim and does not follow the teaching then they are liars, and liars must be judged and punished just like any other crime. And these are not old laws, these are laws from God.
People of other faiths can practice their faith, there is no problem.
I get it, you are the one following islam properly. And all those other guys, although sincere, are wrong. You are the only one who can/knows how to make a judgement as to what is the right way to follow islam. Do you not see the hypocrisy in your words? You seem to think that are the one who is right… and thank god for that!
Where is the proof that what you are doing is right and what anyone else is wrong? How do you know everyone is a liar or sincere? Why not keep the faith in the household, so that it stays a private matter. Nobody cares if you pray or not, it should be YOUR initiative to go pray NOT the gov’ts.
How do YOU get to decide who is punished and who isnt, and what the EFFING point of heaven and hell if we’re going to do the punishing here? Are you saying that you have authority over God’s rule?
Answer me this: why do YOU get to choose who gets punished and who doesnt, and for what reasons. I see it perfectly moral to wear shorts above the knees. Want to be a full muslim, then you better get EVERY dude whose bathing suit is below the belly button and above the knees and punish them. Does that make sense?
Jasim, I know you are sincere, but you’ve got to start thinking with the brain you have, not based on blind faith. There are things, like morals, that we can derive from our brains and our experience. You don’t need to boss everyone around. Do what is good for you and as long as your rights aren’t violated, why point the finger at people.
If people were to sing songs about sex, sex is still going to happen whether the song was sung or not. So why not let people enjoy it without pointing the finger at everyone. Like biking? by all means, BIKE! I like other things, and I think that I am entitled to them just as much as you are entitled to bike.
Have you heard of Bayt Lothan? How do you feel that they are arranging for Hip Hop classes for boys and girls to dance?
Don’t you think it’s better to bring the kids off the streets to practice some hobby they like than to go and smoke drugs?
Btw do you read the news? Drug is already in the country, concerts have nothing to do with it. it’s poeple like you who supress the youth from everyting that they turn to stupid weed.
There you go, they are trying to westernize our youth.
And no, its no better than the kids on the streets. Both are terriable.
Jasim so u never drank pepsi coke and ate Mc or bk?
Am surprised you said Saudi doesn’t follow Islamic sharia ! Even a princess was stoned to death in Saudi !
Eating western food does not westernize us.
ACTING like westerns is what westernizes us.
Again Saudi Arabia to not follow correct sharia law, therefor they dont follow it at all.
That’s your standard? If you eat these stuff then you are a modern person? What if I tell you I rarely drink or eat these stuff, but not because I’m anti-western, I just don’t like these stuff. Even Westerners don’t like them. They don’t benefit the body, they only harm the body.
Well why don’t they teach them poetry for example instead of Hip Hop? It’s much more traditional and even a more beautiful art then Hip Hop dances. Or is it not “modern” enough? And how Hip Hop is going to protect kids from drugs or smoking? Nether poetry or Hip Hop can prevent anyone from drugs or such thing.
your last line sums it all up. Neither poetry nor hiphop can prevent anyone from doing drugs or such things. So why censor and ban to begin with?
Seeing as both you and jasim are masters of logic (or lack thereof), you guys should know that you represent what a growing number of us resent.
Thank you for being so close-minded that you are afraid of choice.
Btw, hiphop is f-ing sweet! Poetry is too, but who are you to impose what should and shouldn’t be listened. to? Why is your way the right one and everyone else’s wrong?
I hope you can realize that there is more to life than judging everyone who doesn’t conform to your standards.
Brilliant and painfully true! It is difficult for me to understand why people want to travel outside their country to enjoy life, to experience life, and to view life, especially your youth. I would think that they would want a modern developed tolerant society where their children would receive a quality education, where they could drive down beautifully landscaped boulevards and to have a flourishing economy. I have observed this movement that you describe for years now, which I call ‘refugee syndrome’ and it has become so prevalent in this society, that I think people just expect that government will not function for the benefit of the nation and just rather board those planes to wherever and live life the way they truly wish they could in their country. Your country is a welfare based society, which means you a fortunate that your government is able, due to your present oil wealth, to subsidize many aspects of your daily life and I have observed that your people have expectations from your rulers that almost equate a father figure. So when the going gets rough, and your government decides to run to airport, you will automatically mimic their behavioral patterns. This has become a psychological burden on your society. It is not normal to leave your country every time you want to buy a Lady GaGa album, go to a concert, or enjoy government sponsored entertainment. The Islamic Movement who have gained some power after the Arab Spring are not skilled at running nations, in fact, they have a history of oppressing societies according to their ‘moral codes’ and paralyzing economies. I agree with you that you would not be able to fill a stadium in Kuwait, but I disagree with you on some of your reasons. The fact that the quality of the venue would be lacking would be the primary reason, besides the ridiculous law of not be able to dance’ that your youth would pass on a concert here. Dubai, Abu Dhabi has foreign companies that host their venues, professional planners, and encourage sponsorship in their venues which get a lot of response from companies. This would take time to build here, but it could be done if the censorship laws were relaxed and the country started to move in a more positive direction. Currently, you have let your country run down to such unacceptable levels, that to attract the correct foreign expertise now, you would have to house them in Dubai and fly them in to work here, in addition, to refining the foreign business laws, so that it attracts the correct foreign investors who are steering clear of this country at the moment. I think the ball is in the court of the youth and you have to decide what kind of Kuwait that you want to live in, because your elders have failed you.
Very well said, and one of the main reasons no investors have come forward to build a proper concert/arts venue is that they feel its pointless with all these rules and restrictions!
Conert/arts venue? Who needs it?
A lot of people do. If you don’t, that’s your business
Needs determine our survival and development.
Give me one example of how these venues can help us?
Economics is not one of them, as we can invest in other things instead.
I will hear a different tune from you when we run out of oil, UAE was smart enough to make their country one of the capital of tourism, are you going to give us a lecture on Islam while we starve? One of the basic concept economics is investing, no its common sense to invest when you have the means to do so, tell me what you have planned after we run out of oil.
During the Islamic golden age, were number 1 in the world in developments like sciance and economics. If we survived back then, we can survive now.
And these people are running your country?
@Jasim – Islamic Golden years??? the problem with Kuwait is that people look at 1000 years ago, not 1000 year ahead.
It’s not a NEED like schools and hospitals! It’s a WANT like all culture and arts and entertainment. You choose to engage in them or you don’t, you let the market decide and not your narrow view of life!
We could argue there are mosques here than there are schools and hospitals. Have they served a “need”?
So you agree music is not a need. If its a want then its not that important, as there are many things people want and never get, does not mean its the end of the world for them.
Mosques have ofcourse served a need! How else would we perform our weekly prayers together?
there are more mosques than what Kuwait’s population needs
I am 100% sure that people can survive without mosques and a place to pray. It’s a want, too by your definition. considering food, water and shelter, are NEEDS, tell me where mosques fit in.
And this from a dude who just said hypocrisy is a sickness.. how sick!
More mosques than we need?
Wheres your proof? Dont forget we have a growing population just like everyone else.
I would actually argue the “need” for all these mosques.
We have a real “need” right now for housing for Kuwaitis. Land is scarce, and Kuwaiti families end up waiting for many, many, MANY years to get one. But instead we have all of these mosques. The idea for mosques, besides coming together for prayer, of course, was to bring everyone in the community together for these prayers, as well as for people to mix a bit and to see each other, when you build this many mosques, you reduce the ability of people to do that, since everyone will segregate and go to different mosques.
So yes, when people cannot find land to build houses for them and their families, yet you have a block with 7 mosques, it becomes excessive. We do have a growing population… is it more important for us to have places for them to pray (even though we have more than enough mosques at the moment, as i have never heard of people being locked out of the mosques here because they ran out of space) or a place for them to live? Even Allah the Merciful says to take care of your family’s needs before praying.
Looks like most of the people who post here do need it.You are the only one who don’t.
I was talking about art
They “need” it? Or what, they’ll go crazy?
MaryM, it is relgion which determines what is best for us. And without doubt it has worked. Our socities have generally and overall avoided corruptions that exist in the west like teen pregancies, alcohol, fornication, abortion, high divorce rates, illegitimate children, pornography, prostitution, ect ect.
In order for a country to develop they dont need music, alcohol, ect. As there are thousands of other ways to entertain your self. The problem these days is that people think the only way to have fun is to do it the western way, which is false.
HEY ZAYDOUN! What country does this kid live in? “Our socities have generally and overall avoided corruptions that exist in the west like teen pregancies, alcohol, fornication, abortion, high divorce rates, illegitimate children, pornography, prostitution, ect ect.” It’s all here Jasim, it’s all here. Open your eyes. The day the music dies in Kuwait, is the day Kuwait dies. I think the society that you dream about existed under the Taliban.
Head buried in the sand, typical!
sure Kuwait may have all that is mentioned above… but doesnt mean we should make them legal
since people are consuming alcohol anyway, ask yourslef which is better: to allow a certain amount of alcohol (from reputable distilleries) and avoid diseases caused with moonshine, or allow people still consume while getting sick?
What’s better: 1. allowing people to get STDs more often and making sex such a tabboo that we have a huge problem with it or
2. educating teens to ensure that if they do it, they do it safe, since they will anyway, and make sure that you decrease the risk of disease and infection through education?
Why look down on natural things? The amount of people who have sex in the name of “mot3a” or the sunni equivalent is just shameless. It should be known that kids are going to have sex, so instead of allowing for rapes to happen because of sexual frustration, they should just let people meet and build relationships if they want, and possbly try this thing out! it’s really not so damn bad btw.
Pornography? You think that we have less of a problem with that? you are desperately wrong. Through living here and studying abroad, it is evident that porn is porn and dudes will look at it regardless of religious afiiliation. In fact, blocking only makes it seem more enticing. So why make a big deal about these things when we can just let people discover on their own? why police everything?
Seems you dont understand english.
Generally and overall avoided, does not mean we dont have them. It means that they are at much lower rates than other places.
Get a dictionary next time.
Divorce rates in Kuwait are hovering at about 80%.
Alcohol consumption here rivals countries where alcohol is legal (percentage wise), but with the added danger of the alcohol being essentially moonshine, since there is no oversight or safety regulations in place.
Corruption is as bad here anywhere else, as part of the the previous parliament was found to be guilty of accepting massive bribes of money that were supposed to go to projects benefiting Kuwait.
Fornication as as high here as anywhere else. Rape is actually higher here than most countries, especially in households with maids due to sexual repression, i would think. As is prostitution, which, sad to say, is done mostly by LOCAL women. Just because something is not legal, does not mean it is not happening.
yes thousands, get creative.
Help me out here and name 10
3. Video games.
7. Seeing Friends.
12. Ride a bike
13. Make something.
Seriously you cant think of doing anything?
1. Camping = maybe sleeping in tents amkes people wanna sleep together
2. Swimming = people wearing swimming suits (3awra)
3. Video games = immoral
4. Movies = immoral
5. Sports = causes competition and hate
8. Reading = book are immoral
I can create stuff too!
Good one. What about riding a bike?
Seeing friends is a new Western phenomenon! WOW!
Riding a bike… hmmm… how long will that satisfy your artsy creative side of the brain?
Will it teach you new things about culture?
If his brain had an artsy creative side, we wouldn’t be having this argument with him… also riding a bike might entail wearing revealing clothing
Wear better clothes for a bike then…
bikes are haram. they’re too sexy. the handle bars. my goodness.
also lipstick is haram for being red and reminding us of…
freedom needs limits.
If people don’t see immoral things, they don’t do immoral things. expect you know…little things like vote rigging, harassing women of all ages, swindling and the like.
no one know how to use the internet, to find music, or pics of immoral people smiling.
when two unmarried people have sex (and this is just me imagining things (also haram)), i have also had sex by association. This is just Logic.
Logic, is also haram.
Condemning other people and labeling them immoral despite an absence of effect to my own personal life, is not haram.
I suppose the years of quasisharia constitutional law has done well to keep kuwait and it’s mensch from being an immoral.
(is incompetence haram? if so, we’re fucked)
How about this:
you can do, now this may sound a little crazy, something to educate the children. maybe not let then be such wild fucking urchins. Is it not more immoral that the future generation seems incredibly ignorant and vulgar? is it their morals we’re worrying about? I don’t know how a museum will ruin them. It seems like it’s as low as it can get.
but no no, you’re right. it’s easier to blame Rihanna and the Kardashians (which you won’t be able to find on OSN or the so-called internets), than collective mass shitty parenting and a culture of entitledness.
Its healthy and give you something to do.
Which is what you were asking for.
i have personally seen Bike porn!
Not trying to be contradictory here but name one economy which is not naturally oil rich and has thrived without all of the above you mentioned?
We are spending all the money on fast food and cheesecake. this image is perfect example how our future looks like when we run out of oil.
Is there any country which “THRIVES” by having alcohol, music, ect ect?
Ofcourse not. If people in the US stopped drinking, insurance costs would come down, crime rates down, drunk driving would be gone, alcohol related deaths/diesases down ect.
@Jasim No offense bro, but the worst people in world are overly religious people, cause they mask their dark habits like drinking etc. behind a facade of religion and they want to control everyone around them with their beliefs.
I agree they are bad, but they are not the worst kind of people. Since a person who is not afraid to show their habits is one that is a bad example for others.
Go look back at history. It’s call The Prohibition.
Remember Al Capone?
So we should not make law because of 1 person?
Doesnt sound logical.
hehehe… he’s one of many.
Read history and come back.
I know more history than you, let put it that way.
Also back up your claim with evidance…
Hey Jasim, i have a question due to your conservative mind, since I am talking to a child, you said, music is Haram, now
did you know Arabs made the Oud?
did you know in the Quran that not even once, MUSIC AND ART was mentioned?
did you know in saudi arabia, which is the most strictest country in the middle east, which doesnt even have a CINEMA, that every weekend i see saudis going to bahrain, drinking and haveing sex, and spending their money on cabareh? if the system was so perfect, then why do i see many SAUDIS coming to bahrain, lebanon, and morocco, and their image is ruined?
you dont see the whole picture, you see and think that the past is good, but the past doesnt fit in now?
which islam do you want?
do you know how many islam their is?
hanafi, hanbali, shafi, and malki,
or do you prefer SALAFIST (WAHABI) the most strictest group in saudi arabia?
did you know these people with the long beards, get their degree after 2 weeks, did you know who exposed them, it was SHIEKH AL KHOUI, from jam3at al azhar.
whats your islam? whats your control? how long will it last? and if the system that you say is PERFECT, how come i still see rape murder, in kuwait as well many SAUDIS drinking and committing adultery when they travel abroad every weekend?
yes everyone JASIM thinks if someone plays they PIANO, i am going to make them STRIP?
you dont judge others!, GOD judges me, not you! you dont own HEAVEN! GOD DOES!
you dont like it, dont listen it, dont even play video games, dont even watch TV!it has music, and ART.
I bet you are the type of hypocrite, that says something and does something else.
I wonder whats going to happen, when they find an other use for oil, and Gas, when the world says we dont want middle east oil?
are you going to give us money?
1. Where did I say music is haram? I never said that.
2. Saudi Arabia is not under correct Islamic laws, and its not even an Islamic government.
3. All the methhabs in Islam agree that immoral music and mixed dances is bad.
4. You dont make any sense.
Ok mr. you know more about history than me (by the way I majored in Political Science in the American University of Beirut).
Please explain to me in a scientific theory why the Eighteenth Amendment to the US Constitution was repealed.
American university of beirut?
Study in the US, then come back to me.
Third world countries are no place to study.
I’m graduating soon from Boston University with an International Relations major and a pre-law track. I back everything Ali Sleeq is saying. Do you now consider his comments legitimate, your highness?
Isn’t this place of moral fragility, also a third world country?
So can I be an asshole to people who have degrees from KU?
Why is it you have such an erection for western education, when part of that high level education is due to their culture?
more of that logic i suppose.
Oh, and just so you don’t dismiss me like you have Ali, I have a degree from a first world country. but don’t worry, i covered my eyes the whole time.
In the past decade, Kuwait has attracted just US$1.5bn in foreign investment, or a mere 0.5 percent of total Gulf inflows, while Yemen attracted US$3.5bn.
Kuwait is like the town in Footloose…
reminds me of Oscar Wilde’s joke “Why don’t Baptists have sex standing up ? Because that might lead to dancing.”
Oh wow Jasim, What science do we have? please specify, unless you expect another miracle and suddenly everyone turns into a genius that would make Einstein look like a fucking old dusty shoe box in the storage room, AND some how create an iphone size income generator to pay the people’s salary then ya ok I get it!
Governments just have to invest in their population, its thats it. Whether they do it or not is not my issue. My issue is that people have to wake up and revolt.
That is by far the dumbest answer I have ever heard. please go back to your cave.
This live and let live theory is extremely flawed. If it is implemented completely then you would have people walking around the streets naked and you won’t be able to say anything about it. Even in the West people are arrested for these kind of actions. Every country must have rules and regulations, and every country has it’s own rules. Kuwait is an Islamic country, sure it might deviate from the Islamic path in some circumstances but in the end it’s governed as an Islamic state. Now Western music might not be offensive to some people just like a man walking naked in the street might not be offensive to some also. But the majority in Kuwait find it offensive so it is not allowed.
I think you took that theory to the extreme, I am not saying we should allow public sex, like you said there are rules in every country and it is different from one place to another, the rules that should be put is to protect the civilians. I don’t recall us being in Sharia law well at least not yet. Jasim does not really know what he is talking about, he keeps giving us lectures about how we should live yet, Kuwait is surviving on a strong economy alone, Islamist do not do much or anything for that matter to help the cause, if you want to get into more details we sell our oil to western countries so maybe we should cut them off? based on his logic. Don’t shove none sense down our throats by talking about the golden age of Islam, this is 2012 at least pretend that you live in it.
Your problem is that you miss-understand everything. When you look at religion you only see the bad people trying to represent it and assume that if we all implement religous laws, then we’ll be oppressed. This type of thinking is what makes people liberal and they look toward the west for answers. And they come back asking “why we dont have this and why we dont have that..”. They forget the reasons and their relgious obligations.
How did a discussion about freedom of arts degenerate into naked people on the streets?? Where in the world do people walk around naked on city streets except in some people’s warped imaginations??!
According to google that would be the nudist village in Cap d’Agde – France
Its legal in many cities in the US, and is very common.
I lived in the states for 20 years. No, there are no cities where you can walk around naked.
You can have a nudist camp. Which is very rare, and it is tightly enclosed ans seperated from society at large.
Also, the states, for all its immorality, is the largest economy in the world, has the most powerful military in the world, and is one of the most influential countries in the world.
Also, they have many different industries that manufacture many different products. Computers, software, cars, appliances. List goes on. Hell, INDIA manufacturers more than Kuwait does, and we make fun of them when we want to call someone stupid.
If bettering our country in every aspect is immoral, then call me immoral.
Laws here have stifled the growth of Kuwait ever since the gulf war, and it is the citizens who pay the price while the law makers travel outside the country to do everything they’ve forbidden their own countrymen from doing.
If you tell people to not make stuff up, you should not be allowed to either :)
Here’s a pic to cheer you guys up:
After reading all the comments on this blog, I just wonder what/when the breaking point is going to be in Kuwait. It is definately a struggling society that is on the brink of an explosive situation.
The above futile discussion remind of this joke:
A man gets into a taxi and immediately asks the taxi driver to turn off the music and music is haram and there was no music in the days of the Prophet Muhamad
Taxi driver stops the car and tells the man to get out of his cab because there were no taxis in the days of the prophet, and he should wait on the curb for the next camel
lol.. that made me smile ! ..good one!
loooool nice one.
This story almost makes me want to restart by blog!
to sum up.. we all agree we need a better English language FM channel here ! yayy !
Jasim, this is for you buddy:
I see no problem. Hes using a def, and there is nothing immoral involved.
so Jasim is the “immoral police” I guess and we are all just savage infidels because we cannot see things his way.
Immorality is something incredibly subjective…granted, I see some negatives from Western culture..I think we all do; however, taking something as large as live music and then just shunning that entirely is absolutely pathetic. I dont know why Western music can’t coexist with Arabic music. I listen to everything from heavy metal to Fairuz .. so I dont see the issue here…Kuwait has the most liberal constitution in the Gulf region, and we see a decent coexistence between people of various faiths (though that can always be worked on ..)
If we are so against the West, then let’s stop buying American, British, Canadian, French, and Italian products..which we tend to do with our restaurants, electronics, clothing, furniture…etc
I’m sick of such hypocrisy. I am more than proud of my Middle Eastern heritage…I love the culture I have been immersed in growing up; however, to take some from something else and ADAPTING it to your own in a way that doesn’t harm you or others, then I think it’s a great thing.
Kuwait already has more Western franchises than some cities in the US itself – and the economic policies that they have adopted are perfectly compatible with the needs of Western economic powers.
Look at Japan for instance…or even Turkey. That’s exactly what they did. They’re both doing fantastic right now.
If we wanna talk about limits, lets talk about the way my female friends and family members get harassed in malls! I think that is pretty damn immoral .
At the end everyone will die and will be judged according to what you did in this lifetime its your call .
or not judged…depending in what you believe in.
Conclusion: Jasim is officially the biggest Kuwait-based internet troll.
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