Recently the subject of segregating the private schools has come back into the limelight. I am personally against this because I think its unhealthy for the male and female students not to mingle while they are young. With regards to this subject a reader asked me to share the following message with everyone:
Your support is needed to attend and pass this message on to others: There is an important gathering at the Kuwait Womans Society in Khaldiya on Tuesday at 6pm in which they want owners of foreign schools and Kuwaiti parents and students to attend to contest the segregation law. They also want to invite as many Arabic speaking parents to support this event. Lots of press and MP’s will attend. Try and make it. Thank you.
137 replies on “No to segregation”
Its a shame I thought progress means going forward not backwards.
i think ppl who want segregation should be segregated !
i mean, we all know who they are, we just bring em all together at 1 spot, put a fence around em and NUKE
Disgusting…..this will be a monumental day in Kuwait history.
If we can survive this segregation motion – we will truly be stepping out of our shell.
I urge all my fellow Kuwaiti’s and valued residents of our country to stand up and be counted.
hahaha.. funny… back to the stone age guys..
Segregation is part of our Kuwaiti, Arab, and Islamic culture…nobody had a problem with segregation until some stupid liberal MP brought it up…its just part of the morally-bankrupt liberal agenda in Kuwait.
Is is issue truely a priority in our country right now? What about healthcare? What about corruption? What about the housing problem? What about the inflation that’s affecting everybody right now? Are these issues just backburners…are they just brought up during elections to woo the electorate and then forgotten when they are in office?
I think that those people who are contesting the segregation law are unpatriotic and just want to stir up trouble because they hate conservative values adn discriminate against conservative people.
This is going no where, they are blaming segregation because some people don’t know how to raise their kids! Thats just sad!
I hope a lot of people show up for this, and show that they are against it!
this is just stupid… these people are hypocrites and pigs, there is same-sex mingling in public schools because of segregation…
these people have nothing better to do than bring kuwait down to their levels and standards of their own home. Kuwait as a whole goverment and parliament should not interfere with private schools as much as they do. Not only private schools but private sector as a whole, isnt this the whole reason why mtc is moving out of kuwait. when will business be business and private be private, why are people not standing up and taking a stance, start a movement? People are too scared that they will be labeled into something negative, people are too scared that they salaf will easily say that they are going against religion they are rebelling etc… By standing your taking a part of the construction and the building of a better stronger smarter kuwait, not deteriorating the current one as these hypocrites are. We too know our religion just as they do, why not stand up and contest what we know and what we believe in
OMG not another nabeha khams move !
What will you actually lose if you study in a segregated area ? will you get less knowledge ? will you fail the subject because there are no girls around ?
The goal of school is to learn, if you wanna socialize, there are plenty of other locations where you can do so.
Many of us studied in government segregated schools and reached high scores and got into the best colleges worldwide. Will having female students around us improve our learning outcome more ? I don’t think so.
Every nation has to adopt their institutions according to the norm they live into. In Kuwait women and men are segregated in different social occasions and thats normal. In Lebanon people always enjoy events without any segregation except maybe in funerals as far as I know.
P.S.
I don’t know why people relate development with the segregation issue ?
how the hell are you to interfere in such a Kuwaiti issue? its NOT of your business! u r just a ****** ForeigneR who shall be deported for being rude
Ahh, If only I were in Kuwait right now. I would attend the event in a heartbeat.
These islamo-fascists have taken our country and religion hostage. ilshar mo 3alaihom, il shar 3ala the people that voted them into power.
Only in our part of the world do we witness the voting public knowingly vote for mp’s that erode the voter’s freedoms and liberties. It’s mind-boggling.
I for sure will be at the attending.
I think there should be another rally with the title “Segregate the segregators!!” I think that if these islamic extremist were segregated, we would be doing kuwait a huge favour in not allowing there poison to pollute the minds of others.They are like a virus.
It is your civic duty to challenge unjust laws.
lighten up guys , we’ve segregated in government schools all our lives and we turned out believing in women rights, it’s not like it’s hell in an all girls school , actually girls schools looks a lot more productive then boys schools , that’s why girls schools are always better in terms of grade scores so I think it’s actually better academically for the girls, believe me you’re better off without us.
with all do respect to Mark, you’re lebanese and I think you shouldn’t get into this issue, and just stay nuetral. only Kuwaities will know what’s best for their country, whether they decide to end the segregation or move forward with it.
I’ve been in an all boys schools from the day i was born untill i graduated from Univ. i still know how to deal with girls, i didn’t become gay, and i didn’t feel that i’m in a “cage”. in my 16years of public schools, i only had 2 gays in one of the classes.
I’m not with or against the segregation as i feel discussing it over and over again is just a waste of time and money, we need to focus on priorities.
what i do believe is that we need the “segregation” in highschools, all high schools, even private ones. from 12 untill 18, that’s the worst years of anybody’s life. we’re not animals, but you don’t put young kinds together and ask them not to make mistakes. even old people do.
Damon dash…
It’s not just about the segregation law… These extremists are slowly eroding away all our liberties, one by one. They will not stop until our beloved country turns into another saudi arabia, or taliban afghanistan. We all know how these extremists have threatened mp ali alrashed. ofcourse they will tell us that the man who threatened him was mentally challenged, as usual.
Damon… the whole idea is that there is CHOICE for the people of kuwait.. These extremists hate for us to have choice, they want to make the choice for us by force. The word CHOICE or other peoples opinion is frowned upon or even hated by these islamofascists.
What’s next i ask?? Not allowing women to drive? they’re already are thinking about canceling women’s rights to vote. open your eyes.
I believe democracy and freedom means people can choose what best fits their belief and philosophy of life. These choices, among other things, should also include if I want my son/daughter to go to school with segregation or to one without segregation. Those who call themselves Islamist should not force their points of view on all people living in Kuwait because Mohammad (PBUH) did not force anyone to become muslim or force non-muslims to follow islamic beliefs. If they want segregation they should enroll their kids in Islamic or public schools, which I am sure there are more than enough for all of them. However, I don’t know how someone who consider himself Islamic conservative will enroll his son/daughter in American or British school anyway.
The other problem that those supporters of segregation don’t understand is that segregation in public school can cause them to increase their fees because the student to teacher ratio will become very low. Public universities will be hit very hard with such move.
Gender segregeation FTW! Go Islamists! Thank God for Dr. Waleed in the parliament. The good doctor is going to go to town on this nonesense.
Bo-Bader, I partially agree with you. The prophet (pbuh) didn’t force anyone to convert, but he still upheld Islamic law. Just because someone is a non-Muslim doesn’t mean that the law doesn’t apply to him in a Muslim country. The prophet (pbuh) established the law for the entire state, not just for Muslims living in it. For example, the consumption of alcohol was just as illegal for non-Muslims as it was for Muslims, so whether a person was a Muslim or not had no bearing on his status with regards to state law. By analogy, if gender segregation is mandated by Islam, those living in a Muslim country (ideally) should be accountable to it, whether they believe in it or not.
Monotheist:
What I said was “Mohammad (PBUH) did not force anyone to become muslim or force non-muslims to follow islamic beliefs”
I said beliefs not laws. Islam did not forbid christians or jews to go to church or practice their beliefs. When you live in any country, muslim or non-muslim, you have to follow the law whether you like them or not. My point was if an American, British, or whatever school want to implement their own educational system we should respect it because people have choices and can choose not to go to these schools.
Monotheist – actually there where wars where those who did not convert where slaughtered and killed. 🙂 so dont say stuff from you arse.
Yeah I get it bro, but I still disagree. Gender segregation is quite obviously a part of the law, so private school or otherwise, everyone has to conform to it. So private schools, just like they can’t permit pork meat because its against the law, they also cannot permit gender mixing because that too is against the law. They’re free to believe whatever they want, no one is policing their thoughts, but making the impermissible permissible is something else entirely. There should be zero tolerance for this. State Laws apply to everyone without exception.
So you mean that the law should also be implemented inside churches in Kuwait? for example they should have police inside each church to make sure women sit on different area? Alcohol, pork, drugs are banned from the islamic country in whole, you can’t ban women nor men from being in the same place! In Ramadan, you can close restaurants but you are not allowed to force non-muslims to fast. Segregation in public places was never stated in any part of the Quran. In Makka, sometimes you pray with a woman next to you. I remember Tash Ma Tash had an episode in Ramadan 2006 where at the end a city was divided into two parts, one for women and on for men and if you want to see your wife you have to get permission and wait in line. Thats what these who are behind the segregation law want, control over people actions and thoughts.
Bo-Bader:
You can’t pray with a women next to you. she should be behind you. that’s how it’s always been. IF there’s no place for any of them to pray other than this way (praying next to eachother) then it’s an exception. and you don’t take exception as bases to any ruling.
You should accept what the Majority says. that’s Democracy. it’s not about having many choices, but accepting the ruling of the majority.
the Segregation between men and women was mention in Qur’an. when God said that if you wanted to speak to a woman, you should speak to her behind a “Hijab” which isn’t the piece of clothes, it’s more like a sheild, a partition, like speaking behind the door.
i don’t think that Segregation is a “Fardh”, but it would be better with it, from an islamic point of view.
-For segregation inside Churches, I have no idea. You’ll have to ask a scholar about that. Try http://www.islamqa.com and http://www.sunnipath.com. And obviously there’s no need for drastic measures like having a police officer at every church just like you don’t need police officers at Kuwait University and public schools to enfore segregation. Let’s not be overdramatic, please.
-Why can’t you ban women and men from being in the same place (provided its a place of heavy, daily interraction. No one says there should be gender specific roads and shopping malls, for example)? It’s already being done in Public schools, Kuwait University, and many on the job in various positions.
-You’re WOULDN’T force non-Muslims to fast because it’s an Islamic act of worship, just as you wouldn’t force a non-Muslim to pray or perform hajj. These are all things things that fall under the category of prayers. Laws are a different category, you’re comparing apples and chicken wings here :D. You WOULD punish a non-Muslim for consuming alcohol in a Muslim country, and you would forbid him from eating pork or committing adultery. Gender segregation, same thing.
-As for segregation not being mentioned in the Qur’an, it actually is, but let me point one thing out before I quote the verse for you. The Qur’an doesn’t mention everything, it doesn’t mention certain specifics of prayer and it certainly doesn’t mention all the laws. We also have the hadiths that we go by. How did you know how to perform the five daily prayers? The Qur’an doesn’t tell you the specifics of it, but you can easily find it in a book of hadith. So we derive our prayers and laws from the combination of the Qur’an AND the hadith, going with just one of them is insufficient.
-For proof of the impermissibility of gender mixing from the Qur’an and the Sunnah, please refer to this: https://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=10&ID=9065&CATE=144
-The purpose of gender segregation, as is with the Shari’aa in general, is to block the way to sin and to deal with the problem at the root. Gender separation is a means of preventing the forming of unlawful relationships that may escalate to fornication. Obviously there’s no chance of that happening in a holy sanctuary with a strictly spiritual atmosphere. Men and women never interact with each other in the Haram in Mecca or any other mosque, not in a personal manner that could lead to lust anyway. The same cannot be same for the school environment. There’s nor problem with both sexes sharing a class room, that’s not sinful in and of itself since there will be no personal interaction especially in the presence of a teacher. The problem is the relationships that are likely to form outside of the classroom during recess. If you spend 5+ hours everyday in the same places with a group of people, then it’s almost certain that some intimacy is going to develop.
-I disagree with the notion that there is a secret conspiracy ca byrried out MPs of the Islamist variation to enslave you and use mind control devices to influence your thoughts. That’s as absurd as accusing all secularist, liberal MPs of conducting a conspiracy to get everyone naked and drunk. Now if these Islamists were making things up, you may have had a point, but the fact that they’re relying on textual evidence from the Qur’an and the Sunnah says otherwise and testifies to their sincere committment to implementing the will of God and his prophet (pbuh). That’s not to say that there aren’t people in parliament that have an agenda, but let’s not generalize.
men and women was segregated in christian churches (well some denominations in the passt). this was hundreds of years ago and we are all knowing islam gotta have some catching up so segregation in muslim country is ok for now until they develops more. But can be many more hundreds years as everythin very backwoods still today.
The link you (https://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=10&ID=9065&CATE=144) did not give definite answer. It says gender segregation depends on the situation.
I did not say conspiracy, it is struggle for power on right or wrong. If you want to follow the extreme version of Islam then you might go live in Saudi Arabia (No offense to Saudis, I have many friends in KSA). In Kuwait, we are an open society with different social background that have been our strength since the beginning. If you want to follow Islamic laws then you have to prohibit women leaving the house alone with foreign drivers which is clearly prohibited in Islam. But Kuwait is not Islamic nation, Kuwait main source of laws is Islam (Article 2 of the constitution). As I said before, if you want segregation then go to public schools with messed up educational system.
Just respect what the Majority votes for and let’s move on.
Monotheist
Sorry, that was not to you personally. That was to everyone who want to turn Kuwait into closed extreme islamic nation. I am a Muslim who believe in democracy and freedom of choosing destiny and belief.
why not turn Kuwait into a 100% Islamic nation?
not a Taliban’s rule, not a KSA rule. more like a AlShariqa Rule. or even, a new kind of islamic rule where everything is Islamic, and just.
Monotheist, you talk too much. Shut up already.
Are you so thick to not realize the disastrous financial implications of such a move? Having two sets of classrooms, two sets of teachers, who will burden these costs? It’s the end customer who will suffer as they are priced out of options.
Kuwait’s education system is already disgustingly poor despite our incredible weatlh. Idiotic segregation will set us back another decade.
If they agree to this – what’s next? Segregation in restaurants? Malls, Women’s rights eradicated?
Crocko rock:
you call yourself “Democratic” ?
Let him express his opinion. he’s entitled to choose the way he wants his Country to be.
and the “Extra costs” you’re talking about isn’t a major issue. Kuwait is capable of solving this problem. It was never about the costs. it’s about what THEY feel is right, and the Majority have the right to rule in a Democratic country like Kuwait.
The idiots who want segregation laws… WAKE UP!! Kids in public-segregated schools are more corrupt than those in private schools…!!!!
Luis Garcia
The “Extra Cost” is a very big problem for people who go to private schools (including universities). Majority of private schools and university students are non kuwaiti who are no eligible for public schools admission. When you talk about cost increase expect it to be between 50% to 80% to already high cost and the government will help.
And democracy is not the ruling of the majority, it is the ruling of the people including minority. Otherwise, it will not be democracy. It is also the duty of the majority to protect minority.
Sad sad debate here…
As long as people wear their religion on their sleeve, no society will advance. People who feel they have to display their faith in such an arrogant way are usually the ones who are the more insecure about it and feel they have to impose their weak views.
Why can’t we practice our religions in private and maybe (just maybe) apply the concepts of tolerance and openness when dealing with others?
If some people grew in segregated schools without any lasting trauma, good for them. Having mixed classes is not about socializing but about class discussion and improving your education. There is no question that diversity brings richness.
But i guess ambitions can be different for different people and some are perfectly content with mediocrity. In the end, it’s what this country will become… a carbon copy of Saudi (money up to your ears, eventually replacing your brain) or a progressive Kuwait with knowledge and critical thinking as pillars with a clear Kuwaiti identity.
WOOOOOWWW
hold on ppl!
el7aram nafsa mokhtala6
fe mokan adyan min il 7aram?
who r we to say latikhli6oon il3ilm… when were obvoiusly just sitting there listening to a prof.. when god made the holliest place on earth coed?
and for those that say ena ur whole life uve been in a segregated skool w 3ade…
wht abt us? ive NEVER been in a segregated skool.. dont we deserve to continue on wht we grew up with?
shouldnt we hav the choice of coed or segregated?
Mark has lived in Kuwait for the majority of his life .. he has just as much as right to share his opinion about matters as it affects him as much as it does the locals. If you still can’t see the past the Kuwaiti/foreigner issue .. then just pretend I wrote it (I would have posted it if Mark didn’t).
I believe that private schools should not have to be segregated .. if the parents are against it, they have other options. Forcing your view on raising children onto others is never a good idea.
I completely agree with K.theKuwaiti. . . . . .
Luis Garcia
“why not turn Kuwait into a 100% Islamic nation?
not a Taliban’s rule, not a KSA rule. more like a AlShariqa Rule. or even, a new kind of islamic rule where everything is Islamic, and just.”
Because the current vision of the Islamic Nation in the eyes of those who call themselves islamist is the Taliban rule. They think that to be Islamic they have to reject everything from the west including democracy (even though Islam implemented democracy before the West did), technology, science, and free speech sending us 1000 years back. Thats why.
well….all of what i wanted to say …is….on the forum 😀 😛 …but just as sum up…STOP ..JUST STOP mixing religion with this segregation matter..you might tell me that it is an islamic rule..and i would agree..but if that was the actual reason.. why is just schools…i mean i know that would send so many people out of kuwait ..but why not separate restaurants, cafes, malls, (separate the 2 side of marina ..male and female) ..i know it sounds rediculus, but they are just doing it to schools…
to bring another matter up, (ps im completely against this) but kuwaity youth needs to be HELPED, not punished.. the kids that are being raised are unaware of what is happening, instead of helping them by introducing hobbies, trips funded by the government, sport facilities (not just soccer) .. this bigger than just the segregation part…it is possible to (POSSIBLE) to end this by force, but then remember the fact that all of this is not for u and i, its for the students that have a future here in kuwait…
i would like to dedicate this to ….. 😛 NAA just kidding !! good effort !!
I would say welcome to Taliban.Our country is jumping backwards.
at least Taliban grows weed, what do you guyz have to forget all this mayhem:P
lool Mark, did you notice that you have many fascist-Islamic readers here, so it’s time for new posts subject to your blog 🙂
First of all, I’d like to thank the people who defended my right to free speech. I appreciate it.
Wow, so much delusional ranting. Bottom line is, this law has been passed by parliament and is the product of the democracy that, apparently, some people want to apply selectively now. What’s done is done. Would you like some cheese with that whine :p?
As for why this law applies to schools and not malls and restaurants, the reason is that it applies to any place in which there would necessarily be intimate, personal interaction by marrigable persons of the opposite sex. Obviously this isn’t the case with malls, restaurants, etc.
Also, I don’t really understand this drama queen mentality. “zOmG! teh Izlamists want to turn us into teh Talibanz! waaah waah!” What the hell does that even mean? Ever heard of something called middle ground? That’s one end of an extreme, the opposite of which is accusing all liberals/secularists of wanting to make bikkinis and speedos the national uniform. Be fair folks, this sensationalist attitude does nothing but reduce your credibility and make you look silly.
Hamitaf La Bookay:
it might be that boys in public school are “more corrupt” than ones in private schools, but that’s not a cause of segregation. People in private schools are “Wealthier” than most public schools students. and you should know that poverty causes “corruption”. also, private schools are better Academically than public ones because they get a better treatment.
If you want to compare them. compare an all girls or all boys english school and a “mixed” english school.
Islam is part of our everyday life. it’s not like any other Religion, it has alot of rules that affect our lifes in so many ways. We were created to worship god and obey his orders, so why don’t we do so?
the ones who are looking for Segregation in all schools (Universities and Highschools) say that Allah said so. if you don’t believe it, try to fight it through Religion itself. if Segregation has nothing to do with Religion, then you can fight it. if it’s a part of our religion, then you should just accept it and live with it.
yeah we’re in a democratic country and we got a civil constitution, but we’re Muslims, and the constitution didn’t forbid us from choosing the Islamic Law.
Fight the “Taliban” Islam, with what you think is the Right “Islam”, as long as it’s Islam, and nothing else that contradicts it.
Yo Luis Garcia, respekk man :D. Nice to have someone on my side for a change!
I went to public school, by the way.
Bo-Bader:
“And democracy is not the ruling of the majority, it is the ruling of the people including minority. Otherwise, it will not be democracy. It is also the duty of the majority to protect minority.”
umm… huh? Democracy isn’t about the rule of the majority? Well the Majority voted in favour of the Women’s political rights, the minority voted against it. guess what happened, the Majority “RULED” in that matter.
Democracy is about casting your vote long with others and whoever gets the most votes “wins”. it’s a way of showing that everyone is equal and you can choose your own fate, but Minority’s point of view should not be forced on the majority.
if the Minorty is the one who rules, then why do we call it Democratic rule, not an aristocrat? (Spelling?)
Just accept that with Democracy you can lose. some things in life are either Black, or White. nothing in between.
Monotheist…
My pleasure mate.
even though I hate most of the “Islamists” in the Parliment, but I shouldn’t let that keep me from saying what i feel is right.
Monotheist… We all know what kind of ideoligies you hold, and what kind of people you have deep respect for… one of which you praise and talk highly of (and maybe a role model for you) is MP Waleed Tabtabaiee. Was Waleed Tabtabaeie the won who caused contrevercy and wrote a letter to Osama Bin Laden, in which he spoke to him in a manner similar to that of a student addressing his mentor.
KUWAIT: According to the website of an online newspaper (Islamic Elaph) report, for the first time in the political history of Kuwait since its independence in 1961, there were rumors circulating around that several groups from various Kuwaiti sections intend to file a lawsuit which would be an unprecedented first of its kind. They said that the case involved filing an application to the court to annul the membership of MP Dr Waleed Al-Tabtabae under claims that he is unqualified for the post.
They added the notion was prompted after Al-Tabtabae directed a letter to Osama bin Laden speaking to him in a manner similar to that of a student addressing his mentor. The letter, they said caused a furor and has been the talk of the town on all Kuwaiti streets ever since. They claimed that Al-Tabtabae is not qualified for his position as he is always known to highlight issues that neither represent, nor are even remotely associated with the Kuwaiti society.
https://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20080103044220/SecMain/pagHomepage/chnAll%20Regional%20News/obj2A17E941-F5E0-11D4-867D00D0B74A0D7C/
Monotheist… It’s clear to most people in this post that you hold the same morals of that person who called MP Ali AL rashed, and threatened his life with seven bullets.
Other mp’s that im sure you support have also been connected with terrorists…There are also Islamic MP’s in kuwait linked to ALQAEDA:
Taliban. Ismail Shati, a founder and board member of the ICM, elaborates further: “They are so poorly organised that anyone can join or leave, and every four or five years there are new splits in the movement; those who are now in Cuba [prisoners at Guantanamo] could easily come from one of those splits. They have extremists among them, it’s dangerous.”
https://mondediplo.com/2002/06/04kuwait
So there you have it. It looks like their demise is inevitable. No longer can these people fool the voting public of kuwait.
These laws that segregate sexes are an abomination, and should be cancelled since they are clearly against our constitution.
The day “your people” (the extremists) are able to change our beloved constitution, come here and argue that this segregation crap is in enforced by our constitution.
The Extreme Islamic elements in kuwait are fighting to changing wordings in the constitution that will be a vast negative impact on kuwait.. for example.. the kuwaiti constitution states in article 2 “Islamic Sharia shall be a main source of legislation.” The extremists are fighting to change the wording from “A main source” into “THE main source”, or even (what they really want is) “THE SOURCE” (meaning the ONLY source).
Now to change our laws and legislation into purely sharia means one thing.. saudi arabia, taliban or even Iran… were talking stoning, cutting off of hands of people, cutting off of heads, etc..
I strongly commend The three Mp’s Ali ALrashed, ALmohammed alsaqr, and alSaya for standing up against these extremists, and standing up for our rights, liberties and freedom, and also defending our beloved constitution.
We have come to an age where there are no more fears from standing up and disagreeing with these crazy people. The movement is strong, and is a start, even if the cancellation of segregation isn’t a success, the success will be in the start of this new found movement of bravery.
Their end is inevitably near.
Hello sfsa78,
Yes, I’m aware of Dr. Tabtabaa’e’s article–I was actually quite shocked at the way he addressed OBL and I completely disagree with him in that regard. But nevertheless, the subject matter of his article, if you’ve read it, was to harshly criticize OBL–he was just overly and undeservedly respectful and polite in his wording, which understandbly may cause confusion to people who suffice by reading the title of his article and/or skimming through it. It’s even more confusing for a reader who happens to be a spiteful liberal with an agenda. Dr. Tabtabaa’e has always spoken against Al-Qaeda.
As for the ridiculous notion that Dr. Waleed’s views don’t represent the Kuwaiti society nor pertain to it in any way, the mere fact that he keeps getting elected over and over again is proof of the contrary. Add to that the fact that he and his Islamist colleagues hold a majority in parliament the last time I checked and you pretty much have a loosing case. The good doctor is doing quite well too, he’s one of the most active and outspoken MPs. He has decorated history of victorious bouts in parliament that speaks for itself, and he has aquired almost legendary status in his battle against secularists and moral degeneration..
Let’s face it: Most Kuwaitis are Islamists. Some of the most successful MPs are Islamists. Islamists even dominate student body elections in Kuwait University, so clearly there has to be something about this ideology that appeals to Kuwaitis. People who claim that this “ideology” (which is nothing but Islam itself) appeals to a fringe group of people are just straight up delusional. Perhaps piror to the invasion that was indeed true, but everything gradually changed afterwards.
Hey safsa, could you please explain to me how and why it’s clear to everyone that I share the same morals as that guy who threatened the head of your secular trinity, MP Al-Rashid :D? I would love to hear this. By the same token, I can also accuse you of sharing the morals of a random criminal for no reason at all, but that’s just way too stupid and obviously a sorry attempt at propaganda.
Ad hominems, false asociation, appeals to emotion…you’re just a master of logical fallecies :p.
once again, people drift of the main subject. instead of discussing the issue, they are slating the MP’s. whether you agree or not, they have a right to choose what they feel is best for Kuwait. you don’t like it? well that’s democracy. you have to ACCEPT that there’s someone with another opinion and if he has the MAJORITY, his opinion will be turned into a LAW. and by the power given to the parliment from the constitution, we should ALL accept it and work by it.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
“قد أفلح من تزكى وذكر اسم ربه فصلى ** بل تؤثرون الحياة الدنيا والآخرة خير وأبقى”
the weird thing is that most people don’t remember that there’s a god untill someone gets hurt, or a terrible thing happens to them. I hope everyone of you has a healthy life, but remember the important thing. Obeying Allah is more important than satisfying ourselves.
Hey bro (Garcia), you should think about starting a blog. There’s a lack of English Islamist/conservative blogs based in Kuwait, so please give it a thought. I just started an experimental one today, check it out. I’m trying to convince a few buddies of mine of doing the same, we can all network with each other too :D!
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=8302634607&ref=nf
Everyones support is needed!!
that’s a good start.
I’ve always thought of starting a blog, just didn’t have the time to write as i used to.
goodluck with your new blog 😉
If they are so popular and successful, then tell me why they haven’t succeeded in changing the wording of the constitution’s article 2, which they have been trying to change for at least a decade now??
People now undestand the islamic extremist agenda, especially the women who have fought for their rights. As for the “good” doctor as you put it.. that must be a joke.. thats just too easyyy to ridicule. Popular? successful?
What part of this article didn’t you understand??…
there were rumors circulating around that several groups from various Kuwaiti sections intend to file a lawsuit which would be an unprecedented first of its kind. They said that the case involved filing an application to the court to annul the membership of MP Dr Waleed Al-Tabtabae under claims that he is unqualified for the post.
They added the notion was prompted after Al-Tabtabae directed a letter to Osama bin Laden speaking to him in a manner similar to that of a student addressing his mentor. The letter, they said caused a furor and has been the talk of the town on all Kuwaiti streets ever since. They claimed that Al-Tabtabae is not qualified for his position as he is always known to highlight issues that neither represent, nor are even remotely associated with the Kuwaiti society.
This is another one of your “good doctor’s” embarrassing past monstrosities….
“A BBC spokesman defended the programme — part of a series on sex and reproductive health — as being entirely factual. Last week Mr Tabtabai said some Olympic events should be banned from television because they were too sexy and indecent.”
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/941661.stm
The Kuwaiti tribunes later had a debate on the Sydney Olympics, in which a fruitcake called Waleed al-Tabtaba ie called for the banning of women’s beach volleyball, on the ground that it was “too sexy and indecent”.
However my favorite of all time is when “the good doctor” nearly drowned on a beach in brazil somewhere, full of topless girls… that was the best.
Kuwait MP slams gov’t for allowing new churches
KUWAIT CITY — A Kuwaiti lawmaker yesterday slammed the government for providing Christians with two plots of land to build churches, saying this was against Islamic law.
“The recent measure of allowing non-Muslims to build places of worship in Kuwait is illegal under Islamic law,” Waleed Al Tabtabai said in a statement after the government provided the land.
https://www.mentalmayhem.net/newswire/2005/week50/index.html
“The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and engrafted into the machine of government, have been a formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man.” Thomas Jefferson on Democracy.
Jefferson’s words are true for clergy of all faiths!
After a long discussion in our staffroom today, we all came to the same conclusion ……………………………. ‘we didn’t have an answer’
We all agreed there were good reasons for segregation and bad…
As a private school teacher, there are advantages and disadvantages.
It is known that girls score higher in exams than boys.
Why is that?
If the government base their ‘arguement’ on scientific evidence that it is infact better off for each sex to be segregated, good move.. if not, bad move.
Do we take the risk of letting our sons become gay and our daughters lesbians?
Not a joke.
I’m serious.
Girls are segregated from the age of four, and they either turn into complete wh**** or lesbians due to the fact that they have no idea how to social with men.
I think this is a tough argument. I have no idea which side to take.
I guess as a teacher, I can say this. Sometimes I have difficulty controlling the girls in my class, and honestly, the boys sort them out, they act like brothers, have a quiet chat in their ear and everything is sorted .. ‘ you need to calm down, Ms X is getting upset with you. ‘
I know that when I was a student at school, I found it incredibly difficult to study alone, my study partner was a guy. It was amazing how much he helped me. I never thought about sleeping with him, he was very nerdy though with huge glasses, had he looked like Brad Pitt, I might have thought differently.
I don’t have enough time either bro, believe me. I’ll just post whenever I can find the time or have the energy to spare. I’ve always thought about starting one, but today was the final piece of hay that made the haystack a little too heavy :P. All this propaganda about gender segregation, the non-stop whining and emotionally driven internet campaigns/groups..just too much, I feel that I should say something about it.
Have you seen that group on facebook called “Kafa”? Basically, the whole premise goes a little like this: “What what what whaaaat! How DARE you question our morals? We will tolerate ZERO criticism to our morality and social conduct, be it from a political or a religious entity.” Yeah right, as if Kuwait was a sinnless society of angles..give me a break, you only have to spend a few minutes in any of our shopping malls to realise that our society’s morals are not only prone to criticism, but many people actually OUTDO tehmselves in misbehaving and committing the religiously and socially unacceptable. They OUGHT to be criticized, and what better standard to be held accountable to than that of our religion?
It’s even worse that they reject criticism and demand that it stops when its based on the word of God, exalted and blessed be He.
“How dare you predict that I’m going to develop a personal relationship with a marrigable person of the opposite sex merely by being placed with them?” Yeah, well I’m sorry but that’s what’s most likely going to happen judging from what we see and here every day.
I’m SO with mishref.
Monotheist
”Yeah right, as if Kuwait was a sinnless society of angles”
This is exactly why private education is vital in this country.
To enable people, like you, to learn how to spell correctly.
Angels, darling, angels……
May I just add… private education is definately, by far, the best education in this country. ASK had one of their students turn down Harvard this year. Yes, you did hear correctly, Harvard.
He choose to go to Standford instead..
Students in this country, in co-ed schools end up going to universities such as the elite mentioned above…
Some of the others include; Princeton, Yale and Duke.
BSK also has a high number of students that get scholarships to these universities.
Separating the sexes may increase these numbers, but, it may also reduce them.
Do you want to take the risk?
Do you want to protect your daughters from the mobs of yahoooooo’s coming out of private schools today?
Or do you want to save your daughter from lesbianism??
There are two sides two a coin.
Two sides to every story.
But…we only have one brain.
I love this post. Very interesting.
I’m glad I’m past the stage of having to worry about it.
I’m just worried for our future generation.
If we choose to segregate these kids, shouldn’t we think of adapting/adjusting/modifying the nightly TV?
Desperate Housewives, Prison Break and Lost all add to the trouble we have in Kuwait. Believe it or not, it’s true.
Your daughter wants to be sleeping with the hot garden from Desperate Housewives..
She craves to be having picnic on the beach with Saul from Lost…
Should we just all turn to home tuition????? hahahaha, this is one hot topic!
The problem of segregation is not just about education, it’s a whole movement, the problem may lead to other problems in life….
Think about it.
It’s not a matter of “what would happen if you study without a member of the opposite sex” it’s a matter of ‘why’ and ‘is it really worth it?’ Private schools had the privilege of having mixed classes, ya jema3a ily mo 3ajba laydakhel i3ayala medaris kha9a. Parents are paying money for the “best” education. The “best” education, in their opinion, is having their children in a safe, mixed environment, because after all, when they graduate, the world is not separated by a partition. Men will not be in a different room when you’re at work. When those government school kids graduate and have no parental awareness of how to deal with women, they look at women as objects. what i dont understand is why the ministry feels the need to meddle with a ‘private’ school’s affairs?
Free Kuwait, baby, free Kuwait
*two sides to every coin*
*hot gardener*
sfsa78:
you have to get two thirds of the total votes of the Parliment (which in today’s parliment is 44 votes out of 65, including the government) and the Amir’s approval too to change the contitution.
you have to remember that the committee that was formed in 1980 to change the Constitution (which had Proffessor Adel Al Tabtabaie) rejected all the changes and proposed a new “change”. you know what did the propose?, you guessed it, Changing the 2nd article of the Constitution to “Alshare’a is THE main source”. but that was rejected by the government, not the parliment.
Teacher’s View:
obviously you’ve never had any experience with Public schools students. you said that they’re gays and lesbians. as i said earlier, in my 16 years in Public schools, i only had 2 gays in my classroom. and that was in highschool.
how many students had Boyfriends and Girlfriends in the “mixed schools”. if you compare the precentage of students having “Lovers” in Mixed schools, to the precentage in Public schools, you’ll know what we’re talking about.
look at how many students have went out on a date in private schools, kissed eachother, and even Virgin students. you’ll see that the precentage is always better in Segregated schools.
not only that, in Islam, you can’t touch a girl. but in Private schools, you see them hugging eachoether, girls wearing shorts infront of the boys, and when they travel with the schools, god knows what happens there.
Good people in Private schools CAN survive without doing bad stuff, but even good people make mistakes. in Public schools, if a guy wants to do something “bad”, it wouldn’t be easy for him to get what he “wants”. so there’s enough time to think about it and do the right thing. but when everything is around, many will do the “Bad” stuff, but if they had more time to think about it, they could have a better chance of doing what is good.
Private schools have the better EDUCATION. but not necessarily a better Environment. we’re talking about the Segregation vs Mixed schools. not about what a private school would offer.
ofcourse Private schools who earn 2000kd for each semester would offer better education than a free public school. ofcourse they have a better chance of being better students, as most of them are from wealthy families. all of that should make people turn into ANGLES. but in fact, they’re not better Morally than Public schools students.
Private schools have mixed schools because they want to cut down the costs. I don’t think that the royal families in europe have their children studying in mixed schools. that shows that mixing the two genders isn’t the best way to educate your children.
I’m not disagreeing with you, however, you can admit that the majority of students in british or american private schools in kuwait, their parents have either been involved in a private education system and/or have witnessed western culture.
I’m not saying they want their daughters to wear shorts infront of the boys, but they do have a right to choose.
Not every child that attends schools in kuwait is muslim.
Christian children have no reason to cover up. They are not muslim. It does not say anywhere in their bible that they should.
You have to see both sides of the coin. I do. And if you can’t, your an idiot.
There are positives and negatives to this debate.
The fact is that, most of the *funky haired Japanese cartoon/pop star looking boyband guys* hanging about Marina CHASING/ABUSING/FOLLOWING/HARASSING girls attend public schools because they have no idea how to interact with a girl……
The difference is that two people who attend a public school will casually approach each other and say ‘hey’…
It’s as simple as that.
Fair enough, segregate the universities – I don’t see the point, but do it.. when they graduate 90% of them will start to work alongside each other.
Private schools – is it really necessary?….
Parents choose to send their kids to this school.
Notice the word – choose.
It’s THEIR OWN PERSONAL CHOICE.
If you don’t want your kids mixing, send them to all girls, or all boys schools.
I know of two english all girls schools. PRIVATE – English School For Girls in Salwa and American Academy for Girls. They are completely segregated. So.. what’s the problem?? Build more schools? Segregate them.. ??
But leave the co-ed schools alone.
And actually, yes, the Royal Family in England DO have their children in Mixed Schools.
Prince William attended a mixed school – he is now doing fantastically.
Prince Harry – who appears (might I add) on the cover of The Sun, The Daily Mirror etc… Drunk, staggering out of nightclubs with different girls.. he attended a segregated all boys school.
Note the difference?
F*** segregation and what bo-bader says is true we don’t want to become another saudi arabia. those guys are slowly taking over!
Coeducation gives students the opportunity to witness and adjust to different learning styles.
Male and female students can learn from each other’s approaches and learn to collaborate, each bringing their style to bear in working for common goals. This is claimed as an important learning opportunity by advocates of coeducation.
Coeducational schools are microcosms of society.
Since men and women are likely to interact in the workplace and in the home, say proponents of coeducational schools, school can be an environment in which gender differences come to be understood, preparing students for life. Students can also learn to deal with the social issues that arise in mixed company rather than avoiding them.
Stereotypes can be broken by experience of the range of gender behavior.
Segregation will not make the future generation of kuwait ‘better’ .. it will just promote intolerance – possibly lead to higher divorce rates and gender issues…..check out in four years how many guys we will have walking about kuwait wearing red lippy..and how many more girls will be wearing boxers, low rise jeans and listening to fall out boy.
those salafi facists
those salafi fascists
Teacher’s View:
Christians in Kuwait should accept the Rule of the majority. Islamic law doesn’t force people to turn into Islam, but there shouldn’t be anything that contradicts it.
Islam says that Alcohol and pork are illegal. you still can’t sell these stuff in an Islamic country.
it’s not always about choices. Laws are there to be obeyed, not to give choices.
segregation…
i think its wrong because they expect us at some point in our lives to marry and have children with the opposite sex how do they expect us to do that when we have barely communicated with another gender i totally disagree with the whole idea and why did they propose it ? if you want your kids to be segregated then send them to a segregated school and what if you aren’t Kuwaiti and cant send your kids to 7ukooma then there are plenty of private school that have enforced segregation.
Mixed views,
Congratulations on correcting my typo. So I guess, assuming that you’ve attended mixed schools, you have superior spelling/typing skills, right? Then how come you’ve spelled “definitely” as “definately”? Also, you say your friend made it to Standford University, but I fail to see what’s so impressive about that. Perhaps if it had been STANFROD, you would’ve had a point, but I can’t say I’ve ever heard of STANDFORD….ooooooh, burrrrrrrrn! See I can do that too :D.
Let’s suppose that private school graduates do exceptionally better academically than their public school counterpart (although in terms of math and science, Kuwait University professors will disagree with you). How do you KNOW that this is a direct result of mixed learning? Show me your studies. And even if you do find studies supporting your bizzare theory, that wouldn’t change it’s status from impermissible to permissible in Islam. There are studies detailing the benefits of wine (not whine, which I’m sure you’re all to familiar with :p), but you’d be laughed at for asking to have it legalized. You see what I mean?
As for the sexual perversion fear mongering you guys are going on and on about, I assure you that gender segregation doesn’t necessarily cause it. Please, you can’t just attribute a very complex problem to a single element, this usually means that your theory is wrong. The more important factor is the quality of upbringing, the proper instillment of religion, and if necessary, early marriage. Do that, and you won’t have too much of a problem with sexual perversion. Most of our parents and the generations before them attended segregated schools, we haven’t seen this society of gays and lesbians that you speak of. They turned out to be just fine *sigh, roll eyes*.
And yes I agree, gender segregation in schools won’t solve ALL problems–like you said, immorality will still be present from other sources, such as the media–but it’s a step in the right direction. You can’t take an all or nothing approach with this type of thing, it simply takes time and doesn’t occur over night.
Finally, regarding your last point about my daughter (lol, I don’t have kids…yet) having sexual thoughts about male characters from TV shows, perhaps that’s a problem your daughter may have, but not necessarily all other females in the world. It all goes back to the point I made eariler about the quality of upbringing and the proper instillment of religion. Blocking these channels would be a good idea too, obviously. Now, if you were to ask me the absurd question of whether or not I think my daughter would have thoughts of a sexual nature, I’d say yes, of course, just like all human beings do. Acknowledging that doesn’t mean that we have to throw these kids in mixed schools “just because they’re going to have sexual thoughts anyway and keeping them away from each other won’t help.” That’s a ridiculous and irrational conclusion. The shari’a recognizes human sexuality, but at the same time it offers solutions on how to avoid turning it into sinfulness and how to go about enjoying it in a permissible manner.
Who ever is bringing religion to this argument should shut the hell up, we live in a civil country
what is happening, kuwait used to be so laid back 20-30 years ago its like things are moving backwards not forwards.
i have nothing wrong with segregation, but give people the choice, thats all they need choice, choice is a powerful tool.
monotheist – as a teacher.. i should inform you..
mixed views is correct……
definately – definitely
colour – color
organised – organized
American and British 🙂
What about StanDford :p? You can’t save him from that one.
Monotheist, you are an utter bigot.
Just GTFO of Kuwait. Your type are not welcome in my country.
M:
Our constitution have considered the Shari’a as a Main source of legislation. and if you read the interpretations of the Constitution (which has the same power of the constitution, as it’s a part of it), you’ll see that the 2nd Article of the constitution didn’t make the Shari’a THE main source but it was mention as a Main source along with other Main sources, such as the French civil law for example, or the Egyption. but the Shari’a was the only Main source of legislation to be mentioned in the Constitution. Why is that? to encourage the Parliment to go for Islamic laws, but not to Forbid them from using non-islamic laws, so it would be easier for Kuwait to turn to an Islamic rule state.
in 1962, we had just got our independence from the Brittish empire, an most of our Laws are either English, or Egyption (which was under the Brittish empire aswell). so we needed to change our laws one by one, one step at a time.
so the 1962 Constitution recognizes the Shari’a as the better way to rule Kuwait. but had to settle for what we got.
Thnayyan Abdullatif Alghanim in an interview said that the Constitution might not be the best constitution possible for Kuwait, but it was the best they could get.
Luis Garcia
What?! How old are you?!!
Kuwait constitution is 50 years old and I believe it the best and most accurate constitution for a civilized society in our region.
If the people of Kuwait wanted to implement the Islamic law they would have done that back in 1962. The British never had any power over Kuwait national issues, they existed to protect Kuwait from you know who.
Back in the 1960s, women can only go to cinema one day a week. People have rejected these type of ideas (not only segregation) ideas which put Kuwait on the map back in the 1970s and 1980s. I don’t think anyone disagree, those are historic facts.
Bo-Bader:
I’m a 23 year old lawyer and I know exactly what I’m talking about. Our constitution isn’t Flawless, but it’s the best thing we could get in 1962. I don’t think you want to compare us with other Countries in the region, as most of them have no real democracy.
Kuwait didn’t have the ability to make the country an Islamic country because they didn’t have enough legal knowledge to deal with the everyday life. they didn’t know how to deal with Banks for example. they couldn’t work with the Othmani Law’s which, by their standards in the early 20th century, was the most “modern” islamic law available at that time. they could not apply it in Kuwait because we were under the brittish empire, the Turks enemies in the first World war.
in Egypt, where we got most our Laws from, they couldn’t apply the islamic rule on all of their courts. the English and the French didn’t accept the islamic Law, and had their own Civil courts ruling between them, or between them and any other person. if an egyption wanted to sue another egyption, he would go to an Egyption islamic court. but if they wanted to sue a French person, english person, or even a Christian Egyption, they needed to go to a civil Court ruled by Englishmen, or french.
They promised to give Egypt their Courts “independence” (make all courts under the Egyption rule) if they turned all of their courts into Civil courts. that’s how the Islamic Law faded away from the Arab world. and that’s how it affected us.
I think I’m discussing this issue with grown ups. the “how old are you?!” comment, is that your best comment?
if you are talking about being civilized, i think you could start by talking with a better attittude.
Don’t let them get to you brutha, الصراخ على قدر الألم :D.
Monotheist:
Don’t worry. we’re all here to discuss a simple matter. I think people in here are mature enough to know how to express their opinions without offending other posters.
we all do mistakes. but the sooner we get on the right track, everything will be alright. I’m ok with people who have different opinions and beliefs, as long as they don’t cross the line and start attacking me, personally.
cheers mate.
Well, I don’t know about everyone man. Just look at how many people cussed me out (and that’s not counting the accusations of extremism) just for disagreeing with them. People who can’t reply rationally to a sound argument usually short-circuit and end up cussing randomly as they foam at the mouth. The irony is that these are supposed to be the guardians of democracy and the patrons of free speech.
pretty ironic.
Luis Garcia
My how old are you question was to know which part of Kuwait history you got, before or after 1990 as they both are taught differently in Kuwait. My school education in Kuwait was all before 1990 before the MOE started twisting Kuwait history 😉
Monotheist
I don’t think anyone here trying to convert anyone else. We are debating so other people read and make up their own mind. That is democracy.
If ‘democracy’ and freedom of speech is about giving people like monotheist a voice – then to hell with it.
There’s no room for extremists in Kuwait.
Monotheist GTFO of my country.
YES to segregation 😛
crocko rock,
Excuse me, but when I read your replies I here someone screaming : “waaaaah waaah, gtfo my country and leave my girlfriends, waaah waaah”.
If you don’t like him because he is being “extreme” as you say. You are being an more extreme to your opinion. you refused the freedom of speech and the democracy because you found someone who thinks differently than you.
gtfo my country !!
hahahahahahaha, and who the hell are you ? it is our country too thats why we are talking about this issue here mama…
it is too bad that you don’t like what monotheist is saying, because most of the kuwait university students thinks like him, i know that from the election of nuks results, more than %50 of the students voted for Italfiyyah which supports segregation so “what are you doing in our country get out waah waah “
sorry typo , I here = I hear
It looks like Egypt, tunis, and Algeria are on the right track…
They’ve all decided to ban Islamic parties in their governments. Religion should be between themselves and their gods, and not forced down people’s throats like we have here.
“Many other nations, including Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt, ban some Islamic parties outright. Muslim nations are right to be wary of groups that might impose dictatorships if they reached power. ”
https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE0DF143EF93AA25755C0A961958260
sfsa78,
Being an extreme is not an answer. You don’t just band other people from the government.
First of All it is not your government.
Then, Do you want us to follow the steps of Egypt , Tunis and Algeria ?
we all know that Algeria was invaded by the French, do you know how was it liberated ? why did the people die ? what the people shouted after the independence day ? just let me answer the last question and you will know the answers of the rest. they shouted “يا محمد مبروك ليك ، الجزاير رجعت ليك”. The revolution was an Islamic one. that why it succeeded.
Egypt is having its worst period of time in its history; I’m talking about economics, politics. So you don’t what that to happen in Kuwait, and in speaking of right decisions, I don’t think you are making the right choice.
Tunisia, following girls who wear hijab, tracking people who pray in masjid. Even in Vatican Muslims have these rights.
being an extreme is not an answer try to convince other people with what you belief, I think your problem sfsa78 is that you contradict with yourself a lot. You accuse Islamists with “dictatorships if they reached power” and you are practicing dictatorship against them. Give me a Break
Hello sfsa87, how are you doing today :D?
Egypt, Tunisia, AND Algeria are all considered to be oppressive countries in terms of human rights (according to the UN, Human Rights Watch), in case you didn’t know, so it’s not suprising that they should attempt to silence the will of their people. Egypt in particular is a ridiculous example to use for your argument, Husni Mubarak is probably the longest reigning “democratically” elected president in the history of mankind! You know just as well as I do that he’s in fact just another secular dictator masquerading as a legitimate leader, nothing more than a modern manifestation of the pre-Islamic kings in a cheap suit and a tie.
As for your opinion that religion should be between a person and his God, I would agree to an extent, but certainly not to the effect that I know you’re implying. You see, I realize that secularists such as yourself love to fall back on this idea for support, and I would agree that it does indeed work against some religions (namely those that don’t have a shari’a and do not extend to politics and legislation, such as Christianity and Buddhism), but anyone who knows the ABCs of Islam knows that it’s a forign concept to Islam.
Islam has an extensive system of laws ranging from the private to the public. Islam does extend to matters of legislation. Islam does command us to uphold the shari’ah on a state wide level. All of that is a fact of life that you’re going to have to deal with. So when you tell a Muslim to keep his religion a private matter, to keep his beliefs to himself in a majority Muslim country, and to cease propagting virtue and forbidding vice (or enjoining the good and forbidding the evil, whichever you prefer), you’re actually telling him to disobey his religion. In other words, you’re pretty much saying “Hey, I know you’re a religious person and all, but I’m not, and I urge you to become as sinful as I am and reject the commands of your Lord.” That’s exactly what you’re saying, you just tap dance around it with typical secularist rhetoric.
This is a major problem when you’re trying to convince an initially Muslim person with your foreign secular ideology, you’re effectively telling him to be LESS of a Muslim, which most people don’t take kindly too.
Another problem is that of self-contradiction. When you present yourself to people as a secularist, you can’t logically portray yourself as a proper Muslim because secularism is inherently at odds with Islam. Not saying that it would make you a Kafir, but it certainly isn’t somethign a proper Muslim would believe in.
That’s all I have to say to you for now, although I do realize that the last point probably isn’t a problem for you in particular since-if I recall- you openly said that you reject Islam. Perhaps it would be better if you didn’t preach to Muslims how their relationship with God should be like when you don’t have one yourself.
98% of Muslims are very distressed by the rise of Islamism, hate it, horrified by it, and are finding themselves very difficult to assert themselves against it.. just as NOT many residents of Spain in the 13th century said “I think the inquisition has gone a bit too far”, because you know what would happen to you if you said so.
The rise of the Islamic Inquisition!!
“It looks like Egypt, tunis, and Algeria are on the right track”
By the way can you define me the right track?
I guess you mean, Your way of thinking? … Excuse me; I believe you have just defined dictatorship.
Hahaha sfsa78!
I’m lolling hard at this one. Did you just pull that statistic out of your Magic Hat of Secularist Facts®? Did you know that 87.53% of statistics are made up on the spot? It’s true! look it up in your hat :p.
I think what you meant to say is the following:
“98% of SECULARISTS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES are very distressed by the rise of ISLAM, hate it, horrified by it, and are finding themselves very difficult to assert themselves against it…out of fear of immediate public rejection and utter political failure”
I think it’s laughable that you would make such a claim especially at a time that is considered to be the age of Islamic revival. Just look at how Arab countries changed from how they were in the 60s in terms of religiosity. Hijabs were unheard of in Egypt, now it’s the norm rather than the exception. Kuwait in the 70s looked like a western country, now it’s becoming more and more of an Islamic State. The Islamists hold a majority in parliament and have been winning student body elections at Kuwait University for a very long time now! Apparently, Islam has been coming back at an exponentially accelerating rate ever since the invasion. People have a tendancy of increasing in piety when faced with rough times.
%98 ??? did you ask all these people bu yourself ?
let me make you a simple calculation,
Muslims According to CIA Factbook total
“Muslim Population in 2007 is 1.61 billion”
by calculating your presentage we found that you have expressed the opinion of 1,577,800,000 Muslim. Wow, good job dude !
now please for the sake of sociology and the next generations, how did you do it ?
The inquisition
The Inquisition in its various guises–papal, episcopal, national–evolved from the medieval inquisitio, a clerical court designed to combat heresy. The Spanish Inquisition was established in 1478; the Portuguese Inquisition in 1536. The main goal of the Inquisition was the investigation and punishment of heresy and APOSTAsY.
The dangers of Islamic Inquisition against Kuwaitis in Kuwait:
KUWAIT: Dean of the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies Dr. Mohammed AlـTabtabaie yesterday affirmed that the penalty of death against apostasy is entrenched in Islamic jurisprudence.
In an exclusive interview with The Daily Star, the religious cleric indicated that there are clearـcut conditions for the implementation of the apostasy penalty which, according to him, should be determined by specialists.
AlـTabtabaie stressed that such matters should be kept away from media wrangling, noting that the enemies of Islam are intent on distorting the image of Islam by not viewing the issues pertaining to the religion from a holistic perspective.
The apostasy law in the age of universal human rights and citizenship
Some legal and political implications:
We always remind those who want to convert to Islam that they enter through a door but that there is no way out. A Kuwaiti jurist (1996) ‘Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief…’ Art.18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) ‘All people are equal in human dignity and in public rights and duties before the law, without distinction as to race, origin, language or religion’ Art.29 of the Constitution of the State of Kuwait (1962)
Conversion from Islam, also known as apostasy – in Arabic ridda – is a topic that is rarely discussed. To most people, the term apostasy has a quaint, anachronistic tinge about it, evocative of religious practices from another age. Freedom to change one’s religion hardly stands as a major problem nowadays; it is a kind of ‘side effect’ of the right to freedom of thought, and as Martin Scheinin points out, ‘states have not considered it difficult to allow their citizens the freedom to think. The difficulties start when we come to the right to express one’s conviction, the right to organize as a community in order to promote a religion or belief and the right to act in accordance with one’s conscience …’ (1992: 263-4). It is precisely therefore apostasy in itself is no longer object of much attention. Also students of the Muslim world are little concerned with the phenomenon, no doubt because it is so uncommon.
Infrequent occurence, however, must not blind us to the centrality of the apostasy law in the social construction of the Muslim collective identity. In terms of contemporary approach to rights – on individual as well as group level – the apostasy law in Islam raises a number of critical questions. Let me start this presentation by telling you about a concrete case of apostasy which I unexpectedly came accross in Kuwait in 1996. It will clarify the concept and practice of apostasy, and help anchor the discussion about legal and political implications in contemporary empirical material.
The Qambar case
The man at the centre of my case is Hussein Ali Qambar, a shi’a Kuwaiti businessman. In late 1995 he converted and became a member of the Evangelical Church. Such an event is practically unheard of in the Arabian peninsula and, not surprisingly, it created some sensation in Kuwait. I have been told that secret conversions occur more often than we think, but this claim remains unsubstantiated, at least as far as as the Arabian peninsula is concerned. Studies on conversion to Christianity in the Arab world indicate that it is often the Christian Churches themselves that insist on keeping the conversions secret. Considering the precarious position of some of them and the collective emotional reactions against apostasy (which I will describe in more details below), this may not be surprising. [1] In Kuwait, which is one of the more liberal countries by Arabian standards, a Catholic and a protestant Evangelical church cater freely to the spiritual needs of the large population of migrant workers mostly from the Philippines, Sri Lanka, India, Lebanon and Western countries. The condition for their presence however is that they abstain from all missionary activities among the local Muslims. Conversions from Islam put the local Churches in an awkward position vis-a-vis the Kuwaiti authorities as such events could be interpreted as though the Christians have not respected their side of the tacit bargain.
Qambar’s apostasy took place against the background of a custody dispute between him and his wife from whom he had separated a few months earlier. A court decision had given the mother custody of the two children but the father had the right to see them on Fridays. Qambar’s wife refused him this right. When asked why by the court, she explained that it was in order to protect the children, as her husband had converted from Islam. Qambar’s conversion thus became publicly known.
Once found out, Husein Ali Qambar who by now had taken the name of Robert Husein Ali, stood up to the storm of reactions around him. Instead of hiding, he willingly met with the press, wearing a small silver cross around his neck, and to the question about why he had decided to become Christian, he candidly answered ‘I have found God elsewhere’.
Following the practice established by tradition, according to which the community must try to win back the apostate before punishing him/her, a group of learned men met several times with Qambar for the purpose of reconverting him. By January 1996, when it became clear that he would not give in to this amicable approach and recant his decision, popular anger began rising against Qambar. In the National Assembly an islamist deputy called for legal actions to be taken against the convert. Not long after, an islamist lawyer sued Qambar for apostasy. To the court, the plaintiff said that he hoped the lawsuit would make the accused ‘regret and reverse his decision or else be officially declared an apostate and bear the consequences’. Meanwhile, the home of the convert was vandalized, he was entirely barred from seeing his children, and when his father passed away, he was forbidden from receiving his share of the inheritance. Gradually, the number of people suing Qambar for apostasy grew. At the same time, he found no lawyers willing to defend him. In May 1996 the judge in the shi’a lower court issued a ruling that officially declared Qambar an apostate and recommended that the death penalty be pronounced against him. Qambar appealed against the apostasy ruling. His appeal was to be reviewed in September 1996. One month before that date, the authorities issued Qambar a passport and he left Kuwait for the USA. What happened in the following months, I don’t know because my fieldwork for that year had come to an end and I had to leave for Norway. But when I returned to Kuwait for a brief visit in November 1997, I learnt that Qambar had reconverted to Islam and was now back in the country.
I had the opportunity to observe the Kuwaitis’ reactions to the conversion, discuss the event with Muslim friends and informants from various walks of life, and speak with the convert himself.
What struck me most was the unanimity of the condemnations. Everywhere in the Middle East these days opinions differ widely on the relationship between religion, public life and politics – with ‘liberals’ and ‘islamists’ being the two contending categories at each extreme of the continuum. Kuwait is no exception. On this particular occasion, however, I found a surprisingly strong consensus across the liberal/islamist divide. Practically everyone agreed that Qambar’s conversion was a serious crime and as is the case with all crimes, it had to be punished. They also agreed that depriving him of all his civil rights was an adequate punishment. The only topic which gave rise to some disagreement and a subdued sense of unease within some circles was the question of the death penalty.
Those who opposed it based their position on the Qur’anic verse (2:257) that says ‘no compulsion is there in religion’. But more often than not, the same verse was quoted in front of me to show that precisely because Islam is such a tolerant religion, there are no possible excuses for apostasy. Mostly for this reason, apostates are traditionally considered insane unless there is irrefutable evidence that they were in their right mind when they apostated. This explains why some people in Kuwait, when they did not want to see Qambar condemned to death, argued that the man was insane, and called him a ‘lunatic’, ‘a case for pyschiatry’. These statements may sound derisive to us, but ultimately, their purpose was to save Qambar’s neck: since he was mad, he could not be held accountable for his actions and therefore should not be killed.
There was a remarkable discrepancy between the discourse of Qambar and that of the society around him. Qambar’s frame of reference was art.18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which calls for freedom of religion, [2] and several articles of the Kuwaiti constitution, especially article 29 on universal equality before the law and article 35 which guarantees freedom of belief. This article reads: ‘Freedom of belief is absolute. The state protects the freedom of practicing religion in accordance with established customs, provided that it does not conflict with public policy or morals’ (emphasis added). In Kuwait, freedom to practice one’s religion does indeed exist for the handful of Christian Kuwaits (originally Iraqis and Palestinians who have been granted Kuwaiti citizenship) and for the Christian foreign workers, i.e. people of the Book, born non-Muslims. But when it comes to apostasy, the wording of article 35 is ambiguous enough to allow for divergent interpretations. One can choose to stress the statement about freedom of belief being absolute and the State’s pledge to protect free religious practice; or one can choose to stress the need to conform to ‘established customs’ and ‘public policy or morals’.
Qambar was thus making use of a universalist discourse centered upon human rights and citizenship. Citizenship as an unmediated relationship between the individual and the State is a novel and as yet only partially apprehended institution in some parts of the Middle East (Longva forthcoming). As to human rights they are an ideology that many still associate with Western neo-imperialism. Faced with the barrage of criticisms and condemnations, Qambar made no attempt to hide his conversion, showed no remorse and acted as if he was convinced not only of doing the right thing but also of having world opinion on his side. He did not bend and ask for his compatriots’ forgiveness. On the contrary he defied them and in his defiance, he relied entirely on the support of outsiders – overwhelmingly Christian and Western. As a matter of fact, several Christian organizations around the world mounted a campaign on Qambar’s behalf and his story became something of a cause célèbre on the Internet. The case also provided the basis for sharp criticism against the state of Kuwait at the United Nations in the fall of 1997.
By contrast to Qambar’s discourse, the discourse of those who condemned him was framed in particularistic terms of communal and regional belonging. The majority of the Kuwaitis reacted with anger. Anger against Qambar for betraying the Muslim umma, the Arab nation and the Kuwaiti community, but also anger against the Western Christian world who, it was claimed, had engineered this whole episode. People were enraged that Qambar so willingly accepted to be a tool in the Westerners’ plot against his own people. When, in an attempt to de-dramatize the event I once suggested that Qambar’s conversion may be due to purely personal reasons, people dismissed my view at best as naive, at worst as bordering on bad faith. Even my friends looked at me with suspicion and darkly allude to outside forces working for the demise of Islam.
Summing up the Kuwaitis’ reactions to Qambar’s conversion, I would say that absence of indifference was what really surprised me. It seemed as if each and everyone in Kuwait experienced Qambar’s conversion as a personal affront. That islamists and other religiously conservative people were angered by the conversion was not entirely unexpected. What was more surprising was that also ordinary, moderate Muslims departed from their usual tolererance and supported the penalties meted out to the convert. Political figures and intellectuals who consider themselves and are considered by others as liberal, secular and western-oriented, and who have often openly disagreed with the islamists in the columns of al Qabas, al Watan, or al Anba’, kept silent on this occasion.
I stress this point because, unlike the death penalty, stripping apostates of their civil rights was clearly a punishment that was considered fair and not too harsh. To understand this view, we need to remember that civil status in the Muslim world is inextricably linked to religious status. As a result, the question of the adoption by Muslim countries of the secular state ideology and the international instruments in the field of human rights involves conflicts between concrete and complex legal systems and not merely between subjective cultural representations. We also need to bear in mind that throughout the history of Islam, apostasy has been branded as a particularly heinous crime perpretrated against both God and his representatives on earth. It is at one and the same time religious betrayal and political treason (Piscatori 1980). [3]
And the Islamists say we dont need human rights in kuwait, since we have Islam. What a joke.
Yes, that’s exactly right, sfsa. All we need are the human rights that are contained within Islam, and any other right that doesn’t CONTRADICT Islam. Nowadays, often you’ll hear secularists crying for the legalization of alcohol, for example, as a basic human right. Same thing can happen for other things that contradict Islamic law, such as the rejection of certain punishments specifically commanded in Islam, such as stoning adulterers, flogging fornicators, etc. You get the idea.
We know that you think Islam is a joke, which again makes it all the more ridiculous for you to accuse anyone else of not representing the majority of Kuwaitis. I dare you to go the most sinful place in Kuwait and tell the most watered down Muslim that Islam is a joke, see if you don’t get knocked out instantly. Even those kids with crazy haircuts wandering around aimlessly in malls will get physical with you if you were to say that in their presence.
I think what you said right here is enough to revoke your license as the official representative of the Kuwaiti people.
Monotheist… the “98% of muslims” post was a direct quote from a BBC interview with Martin Amis (Britain’s best-known political novelists).
So your silly little Islamic fascist arguments should be directed towards the britain’s best known political novelist…with whom you can’t even compare your arguments with!!
If you’re interested in the interview (which i’m sure would make your blood boil to my utmost satisfaction 🙂 ), is found on this BBC page :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/the_interview.shtml
In which he talks of the dangers of political islamism, and the inevitable rise of extremist islam which he explains is comes right on time after the Catholic extremist rise (inquisition).
Listen to it carefully!! Educate yourself!!
sfsa78 jumping from a subject to another won’t help you, lool in fact you are making fun of yourself. If you like to know about islam you can ask directly. don’t try to offend it in order to get information about it.
https://www.islam101.com/rights/hrM2.htm
go and read my allah guide you to the right path. reading is a good thing by the way. Get used to it before people get used on laughing at you.
Monotheist..
I look forward in seeing you tonight at the demonstration against segregation. 🙂 Your more than welcome to come.. Just listen to the “other” side of the story, the “other” point of view or opinion which extremists hate with a passion.
sfsa78,
I’d love to, but I’m currently in the US finishing up my senior year. Perhaps you and I can kick it over coffee or something one day when I get back :D.
I thought you were studying in the UK? Congratulations if you’ve graduated.
Anti-sec..
The one subject that i have been writing about is ISLAMIC EXTREMISM, which i have not veered from (as most people on this blog will agree with me, accept you and your extremist side kick).
All that i have posted are the truths which i have provided links to. Obviously that makes the extremists here froth at the mouth with hatred.
Hey sfsfs I just used your method with percentages. I found that %99.4 of Muslims around the world hate what you say and support us. What do you think ? lool
Article 36 of kuwaiti constitution [Freedom of Opinion and Expression]
Freedom of opinion and of scientific research is guaranteed. Every person has the right to express and propagate his opinion verbally, in writing, or otherwise, in accordance with the conditions and procedures specified by law.
Anti-sec.. Whats wrong with u? U complete idiot?? Read what i said in previous post.. it was a direct quote from a BBC interview with Britain’s best known political novelist… Go cry to them if you think there’s a problem.
anti-sec..
I think he has more credibility than you. lol 🙂
sfsa78,
In conclusion (for today anyway), I leave you with these words of wisdom and I sincerely urge you to contemplate deeply:
أيا من يدّعي الفهم
إلى كم يا أخا الوهم
تعبي الذنب والذم
وتخطي الخطأ الجم
أما بان لك العيب
أما أنذرك الشيب
وما في نصحه ريب
ولا سمعك قد صم
أما نادى بك الموت
أما أسمعك الصوت
أما تخشى من الفوت
فتحتاط وتهتم
فكم تسدر في السهو
وتختال من الزهو
وتنصب إلى اللهو
كأن الموت ما عم
وحتى ما تجافيك
وإبطاء تلافيك
طباعاً جمعت فيك
عيوباً شملها انضم
إذا أسخطت مولاك
فما تقلق من ذاك
وإن أخفقت مسعاك
تلظيت من الهم
تعاصي الناصح البر
وتعتاص وتزوّر
وتنقاد لمن غر
ومن مان ومن نم
وتسعى في هوى النفس
وتحتال على الفلس
وتنسى ظلمة الرمس
ولا تذكر ما ثم
ولو لاحظك الحظ
لما طاح بك اللحظ
ولا كنت إذا الوعظ
جلى الأحزان تغتم
ستذري الدم لا دمع
إذا عاينت لا جمع
يقي في عرصة الجمع
ولا خال ولا عم
كأني بك تنحط
إلى اللحد وتنغط
وقد أسلمك الرهط
إلى أضيق من سم
هناك الجسم ممدود
ليستأكله الدود
إلى أن ينخر العود
ويمسي العظم قد رم
ومن بعد فلا بد
من العرض إذا اعتد
صراط جسره مد
على النار لمن أم
فكم من مرشد ضل
ومن ذي عزة ذل
وكم من عالم زل
وقال الخطب قد طم
فبادر أيها الغمر
لمن يحلو به المر
فقد كاد يهي العمر
وما أقلعت عن ذم
ولا تركن إلى الدهر
وإن لان وإن سر
فتلفى كمن اغتر
بأفعى تنفث السم
وخفض من تراقيك
فإن الموت لاقيك
وسار ٍ في تراقيك
وما ينكل إن هم
وجانب صعر الخد
إذا ساعدك الجد
وزم اللفظ إن مد
فما أسعد من زم
ونفس عن أخ البث
وصدقه إذا نث
ورمّ العمل الرث
فقد افلح من رم
ورش من ريشه انحص
بما عم وما خص
ولا تأس على النقص
ولا تحرص على اللم
وعادل خلق الرذل
وعود كفك البذل
ولا تستمع العذل
ونزهها عن الضم
وزود نفسك الخير
ودع ما يعقب الضير
وهيء مركب السير
وخف من لجة اليم
بذا أوصيك ياصاح
وقد بحت كمن باح
فطوبى لفتى راح
بآدابي يأتم
wow, most people agree with you ? again ! … Hmmm you have a serious problem. You consider any one who says shahada – which is by the way i bear witness that there is no god but allah and mohammed is the messenger of allah – is an extremist. you don’t even know what you are talking about !
sfsfs, and how did they come up with that number mama ? do you believe anything you are told ? what is the difference between my 99.4 and ur 98 ? just because he’s an analyst doesn’t mean he’s automatically right
even analysts need to prove their facts. let me tell you the different, mine is higher. lol …
go cry to your analyst and let him raise the number a little bit 😛
I think it is realy bad i would not like to be forced to separte i would like to do anythung i want and it is freedom you parents want to keep u in a mixed school it is their choice.
Address is:
الخالدية – شارع الفردوس
قطعة 2 – مبنى رقم 2
تلفون 4843397 – 4843667 – 4831558
Khaldiya, Ferdos Street
Block 2, Bldg 2
Segregation has no bearing on improvisation of educational standards in any country and NO religion can ever be about discrimination, segregation or repression. It’s bad enough that state schools and Kuwait university already have segregation imposed on them by those we do not speak of; who are now hell bent on letting the rot spread some more to private education, this time. At a time when Q8 should be thinking secularism, revoking the segregation in Kuwait University, and statehood for Bedouins besides extending voting rights to all of its 1 million citizens ( naturalized Kuwaitis and foreign spouses of nationals and their children included) parliamentary nit pickers are busy making an issue out of a non-issue.
Increase segregation in schools and witness a phenomenal rise in sexual harassment in malls, juvenile delinquency and an overall increase in Saudi , Afghan & Iran style misogynist tendencies prevailing in the country. The bottomline is while the rest of Kuwait’s Gulf neighbors are fast advancing and joining the global league of progressive nations Kuwait is allowing Saudi Arabia to take it to the abyss of primitive thought processes & mediaeval living. Isn’t this a case of ‘ Nero fiddled while Rome burned,’ for Kuwait’s high command ?
Further and more there is intense debate raging in academic circles in the Sharq Al Awsat on the role played by fundamentalist MPs in Kuwait’s Assembly on a homosexual awakening in Kuwait. Many claim they were the real architects of a flourishing gay & lesbian movement in Kuwait, with their passion for segregated education made clear through a series of regressive legislations in the last 15 years post liberation ( correction post annihilation). So much for conservatism!
That’s the interpretation of the Constitution’s Article 2.
“لم تقف هذه المادة عند حد النص على أن ” دين الدولة الإسلام ” بل نصت كذلك على أن الشريعة الإسلامية – بمعنى الفقه الإسلامي – مصدر رئيسي للتشريع ، وفي وضع النص بهذه الصيغة توجيه للمشرع وجهة إسلامية أساسية دون منعه من استحداث أحكام من مصادر أخرى في أمور لم يضع الفقه الاسلامي حكما لها ، أو يكون من المستحسن تطوير الأحكام في شأنها تمشيا مع ضرورات التطور الطبيعي على مر الزمن ، بل إن في النص ما يسمح مثلا بالأخذ بالقوانين الجزائية الحديثة مع وجود الحدود في الشريعة الإسلامية ، وكل ذلك ما كان ليستقيم لو قيل ” والشريعة الاسلامية هي المصدر الرئيسي للتشريع ” إذ مقتضى هذا النص عدم جواز الأخذ عن مصدر آخر في أي أمر واجهته الشريعة بحكم مما قد يوقع المشرع في حرج بالغ إذا ما حملته الضرورات العملية على التمهل في التزام رأي الفقه الشرعي في بعض الأمور وبخاصة في مثل نظم الشركات ، والتأمين ، والبنوك ، والقروض ، والحدود ، وما إليها .
كما يلاحظ بهذا الخصوص من النص الوارد بالدستور – وقد قرر أن ” الشريعة الاسلامية مصدر رئيسي للتشريع ” إنما يحمل المشرع أمانة الأخذ بأحكام الشريعة الإسلامية ما وسعه ذلك ، ويدعوه إلى هذا النهج دعوة صريحة واضحة ، ومن ثم لا يمنع النص المذكور من الأخذ ، عاجلا أو آجلا ، بالأحكام الشرعية كاملة وفي كل الأمور إذا رأى المشرع ذلك .”
that shows that the Constitution isn’t against Alshari’a. it encourages the conversion to Islamic Laws.
sfsa78: have you heard of Anthony Nutting? he was a Brittish Minister who resigned from office because of the 1956 war over the ownership of the Canal. he wrote a book about called The Arabs; From Mohammed to Nasser. read it and see how Islam turned Arabs into a Superpower, that even the Roman empire couldn’t keep up with us.
Islam gives us the best bases of great Society. It was the first to say that the best Economic system is based on the mixture of Communisim and Capitalism, not like what the world have been through in the cold War, being between two extremes, Extreme Capitalism, and Extreme Communism.
i don’t want to go into other subjects, just wanted to show that the Islamic laws should take us forward, not backwards. And that our Constitution wasn’t against Islam.
Now when you go back to the main topic, it was about Segregation of sexes. whether you’re with it or against it, you just can’t deny the Islamic politicians’ right to fight for their beliefs.
And let the Majority rule.
Renewed fears of an Islamist wave destabilizing the countries of the Muslim world. Yet the alarm raised over a previous wave of Islamism in the early 1990s, which threatened to overwhelm Egypt and Algeria and spill into the Balkans and Central Asia, proved to be unfounded. Takeyh and Gvosdev assert that while Islamism has been successful as an oppositional ideology of wrath, it has failed to provide Islamic societies with any feasible alternative to undertaking fundamental political and economic reforms. By detailing the defeat of Islamist movements in the Middle East, the Balkans, and Central Asia over the last decade, this book encourages us not to overestimate the “Islamist threat” in the current climate and the years to come.
98% of Muslims are very distressed by the rise of Islamism, hate it, horrified by it, and are finding themselves very difficult to assert themselves against it.. just as NOT many residents of Spain in the 13th century said “I think the inquisition has gone a bit too far”, because you know what would happen to you if you said so.
i like this quote particularly because it is self explanatory and is hated by the fascist islamist extremists who post here and who commit their precious time in trying to argue every single post. I repost this quote since it has the most reaction from the islamic extremists on this blog.
Yet more absurdity, craziness, insanity, irrationality. and downright ridiculousness from the Thawabet Al Umma (Islamist extremist party) an extremist Islamic group, has condemned the celebration of Valentine’s Day and warned the media against misguiding Muslims by “glorifying such pagan practices.” The media is playing an important role in popularizing such celebrations and leading Islamic nations on the path of disbelief, the group added.
But the Islamist apologists tell us that this is the norm, and that “they” set the standards. WHAT A JOKE!!
there are some underlying truths to the characterization of radical Islam as a fascistic ideology (I take great pains to distinguish between Islamic fundamentalism and the more commonly recognized and mainstream variant of Islam). The rise of fanatical theocracies (Ahmadinejad’s Iran) and extremist non-state actors (al-Qaeda) have the indelible marks of far-right totalitarian politics.
And I’m hardly alone on this one. Earlier this year, for example, a number of prominent intellectuals published a statement in condemnation of what they regarded as the rise of Islamic totalitarianism. The list of thinkers who signed this statement included Salmon Rushdie, French philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy and exiled Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen. In the statement, they wrote that “After having overcome fascism, Nazism and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global threat: Islamism…We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.”
Rushdie et al are correct in their assertion that radical Islam has the characteristics of a totalitarian ideology, but I believe they have understated its fascistic elements.
Many people have the idea that fascism is the monopoly of white supremacist types. This is not the case. At its core, fascism describes the rise of a self-identified group that has grossly exaggerated its historical and societal significance. This self-identity, which typically manifests as a sense of superiority or shared destiny, can encompass anything from race, nationhood, religion, and a shared cultural heritage.
As historian Allan Cassels noted in his book, Fascism, virtually every nation has what is referred to a pre-fascist culture. For the early 20th century Germans, they identified with their race, the volk, and their mythical ‘glorious’ past. At the same time, many other European nations experimented with fascism, including Italy, Spain, England and even the United States.
Today, this pre-fascist culture is weak in liberal society, but it is rearing its ugly head in some of the Islamic nations. Al-Qaeda, for example, is a paramilitary organization with the stated task of reducing the outside influence of Islamic affairs. This is very much an example of cultural xenophobia and an overstated sense of social mission. Like the fascists of 20th century Europe who feared the specter of Bolshevik globalization, many Muslims today fear the encroachment of American and Jewish values. The result is a far-right, exclusionary, militaristic, and hyper-sensitive counter-reaction in the form of fascism.
Which leads to the next indelible characteristic of fascism: a common enemy. The racist Nazis rallied the nation to deal with what they considered to be the Jewish problem. The Jews were an identifiable enemy who could be blamed for all the problems of the state. They also targeted the Bolsheviks, whose extreme left position polarized and radicalized the right even further. Today, the Jews have once again been targeted by a far-right group, this time in the Mid East—but now they have been joined by the Americans (whose capitalist imperialism and social liberalism has taken the place of communism).
Other characteristics of fascism include a charismatic and populist leader, which Iran quite clearly has in President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. What’s particularly frightening is that Ahmadinejad clearly believes his own hype. He is not so much a dictator as he is an ideologue.
By hype I mean ideology–or in this case, theological ideology. And in this sense Islamic totalitarianism is distinguished from the more secular or socialistic forms of totalitarianism. Where Marxism and fascism had ideologies informed by political, philosophical, and even (pseudo)scientific texts, radical Islam is a theocratic framework that draws its authority from religious sources.
It’s a fine point, but it’s worth mentioning. Islamic totalitarianism, while arguably far-right, is an ideological horse of a different colour. What it shares with more traditional notions of totalitarianism, however, is that is that the source of authority does not come from one individual or group of individuals (i.e. authoritarianism), but instead emanates from a monopolistic ideological framework that is enforced as the only true law of the land.
Indeed, democracy, due process and other elements of social justice as we know it in liberal democracies are absent in countries like Iran and the former Taliban Afghanistan. The goal of these theocracies is to embed religious ideology across the land and to maintain a monopoly on all ideas and institutions; radical Islam, like any totalitarian ideology, is enforced as the alpha and omega of personal existence (the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior). In this sense the revolution that is Islamic totalitarianism is comparable to the Stalinization of the Soviet Union and the work of the Nazis in 1930’s Germany. The Soviets tried to create a worker’s utopia and the New Man, while the Nazis worked to ensure racial purity and create a 1,000 year Reich; Islamic fundamentalists want to create a heaven on earth – a phenomenon comparable to the quasi-totalitarian and theocratic efforts of the Calvinists in 16th century Geneva.
As for the Islamic revolution, one example that will forever stand out in my mind is when the Taliban destroyed Afghanistan’s Buddhist statues. This was an explicitly revolutionary act against those ideas and institutions that potentially rivaled the tenants of the ruling ideology; all revolutions seek to destroy the past, and this one is no different. Another example of zero tolerance toward opposing viewpoints was the recent row over the caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed in the Danish daily newspaper Jyllands-Posten. Western notions of free expression and the free press are lost on the theologues.
So, while Bush and the neo-cons wage their obverse Christian crusade against the ‘Islamic fascists’, they have (likely unintentionally) revealed a disturbing aspect of extremist politics in the Middle East. And as each side continues to antagonize each other, modern politics migrates further and further into the extreme fringes.
I thank Islamic Extremists (the likes of whom on this blog) have given Islam a bad name, not only in our region, but also in the west.
Monotheist.. it seems that you have learnt well from the zionist jews.. The zionists shout out to anyone who is against the state of Israel and accuses them of being anti-sametic and racist in order to make them look Illegitimate. Even the most anti-zionist jews of newyork are called anti-sametic (and there are many).
In order for you to scare me off and make my quotes not agreeable by other kuwaiti muslims you obviously must make me into some kind of heretic, or anti-islamic.. when clearly I hold the same thoughts islamic extremism as any Kuwait constitution loving kuwaiti here on this blog or anywhere. You’re islamic extremist fascist ways of demonizing anyone who dares criticize your “moral values” is futile.
Your ridiculous quote in which you try your hardest tp make me (your critique) look anti-islamic (what a joke!!) :
“We know that you think Islam is a joke, which again makes it all the more ridiculous for you to accuse anyone else of not representing the majority of Kuwaitis. I dare you to go the most sinful place in Kuwait and tell the most watered down Muslim that Islam is a joke, see if you don’t get knocked out instantly. Even those kids with crazy haircuts wandering around aimlessly in malls will get physical with you if you were to say that in their presence.
I think what you said right here is enough to revoke your license as the official representative of the Kuwaiti people.”
This quote shows how sad and desperate your kind is in order to put down your critiques. What a joke!! I’m a Kuwaiti Muslim, who happens to be critisizng you.. what a nightmare it must be to you.
Monotheist… . There was a HUGE turn out at the anti-segregation demonstration today… i went on your behalf… no need to thank me 😛
SO monotheist… According to you, any muslim that criticizes extremist islamists are labeled as anti-islam?!?!.. this proves exactly how deperate and dangerous you guys are.
once again, you jump from one subject to the other.
sfsa78:
leave the Extremists alone now. If you want to discuss this matter objectively, then I’m willing to continue this discussion. if you want to slate Islamic politicians and extremists, then our discussion is over.
I disagree with most of the political Islamic parties in Kuwait, and in the rest of the world. many of them are driven by other motives, other than obeying Allah’s orders.
I believe that Islam was a god given gift, and we should cherish it, and work by it untill the last days of our lives. If you agree with me, then you should atleast do your best to obey all of Allah’s orders.
Let’s settle for a middle ground, Shall we?
I say Islam (not Islamists) brought alot of Laws that shouldn’t be breached. without mentioning them right now, do you agree on that?
and i mean, Real Islam, not the “Extremists’ Islam” as you call it.
Monotheist = Anti-Secularism
Monotheist, you sad, hypocritical idiot. You’re in the US Studying in a co-ed system and enjoying the benefits of such – yet condone the imposing of segregation in Kuwait?
You sad, sad little fool. Stop embarrassing yourself with your idiotic posts. The whole of this community is already gushing at the seems with laughter at your inane, contradictory bullshit. You’re a 21 year kid with a lot to learn about life.
Crocko rock:
Respect other posters. if you have a problem with Monotheist, speak to him privately. and if you can’t, then that’s your problem.
crocko rock,
I swear by the Lord of Ka’aba that I’m not the poster who goes by the name of “Anti-Secularism.” You can even have Mark check the IPs if you want, but that’s all I’m going to say. Believe it or not, I don’t really care.
Regarding my studying in the US in a co-ed environment, here’s why. There are some things that take precedence over other things, not all things are equally as important. Right now, what the Ummah needs the most, besides the revival of religion in the people’s hearts, is people with advanced degrees and a better education. That goal is obviously far more important than keeping a safe distance away from marrigable members of the opposite sex, provided that the person who admits himself to such an environment feels reasonably confident about his ability to guard his chastity. This is justifiable ONLY as long it remains to be the EXCEPTION rather than the RULE.
This is exactly analogus to the situation a physician may find himself in. We all know that it’s impermissible to look at other people’s ‘Awrah (nudity), but we make an exception for the doctor because the patient’s health, which is assumed to be dependant on a nude examination, takes precedence over the impermissibility of observing the ‘awrah.
Another thing to keep in mind is that I don’t have a say in whether or not my university is segregated, while obviously the exact opposite is true when it comes to Kuwait. I assure you that I’d tell them to segregate campus if I were appointed dean.
Also, I’d like to point out that I wan’t always observant of my religion. I changed a lot over the years that I’ve spent here in the US, and I became convinced of my current religious views AFTER coming to the states, so it’s not like I could change anything now. If I could go back in time, I would probably go to Kuwait University instead of come here. And I came here for the quality of education, not the mythical “benefits of a co-ed environment” (ie; gazz). If it’s any consolation, rest assured that a heavily bearded Arab walking around campus with a miswak has little to no chance of getting a date anyway :P.
So there you go, too many assumptions and hasty judgement on your part is why you fail every single time. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain myself, you may now apply hair gel and head to the nearest mall to enjoy the benefits of a co-ed enviornment 😀
You can go to my website, and call me if you want my number is shown there.
Frankly, I don’t understand all this hoopla surrounding enforced segregation in private schools. People must have the choice to send their wards to a co-ed school if they feel it’s right for them. You can maybe offer people the choice to segregate their wards during the reproductive biology lesson but other than that boys and girls studying together is all good.
Monotheist: Sad to say, that’s a pathetic excuse and yet another tiresome, incoherent rambling bunch of nonsense.
No one forced you to go to the US, no one forced you to leave Kuwait – yet YOU CHOSE to do so.
See, that’s a concept that you and your bunch of extremist cronies will never understand – life is about freedom of choice. It’s about making the right choices – it’s NOT about you or your pathetic bunch of hypocrites forcing your beliefs or interpretations down mine or any of my fellow brothers and sisters throats.
What a joke you are.
A selfish 21 year old kid who benefits from the rich minds of a free society – yet trying to restrict the education and choice of others in another.
– Say Oui! to Anti Segregation
What is all this talk about FREEDOM TO CHOSE? If the issue does not contradict a standard, then, and only then, it is free choice. However we don’t say people should have the RIGHT to chose between stealing,killing, torturing?
Now, the question here is Segregation, and I ask you to be forth-right with not only me, but all of us. By what standard do you refer to when you say people should have right to chose? Western Ideology? Kuwaiti Constitution? A theological book perhaps?
These Islamists and extremists are to blame for Kuwait’s degradation of it’s education and it’s culture which seems to threaten their (islamists) ideologies. People should not be afraid of their own free-thought , with which they are born with (the free thought and thinkers that the islamists condemn), And should be able to question everyone or everything without being labeled a heretic or an apostate (a kafir or a dis-believer).
Kuwaitis should embrace there liberties and freedoms that are guaranteed by their constitution, and should collectively join in condemnation against any islamist radicalist force or entity that may forcefully change Kuwait’s constitution in the name of force-fed ideology and/or other theories of reality.
It is unfortunate that most of the voting public here, in kuwait , waste their votes on these Islamist extremist MP’s who in-turn are out to limit the liabilities and freedoms, of citizens, and are spreading their twisted idiologies and enforcing them upon our country. Imagine if these people were allowed to get stronger? Imagine the consequences of that happening..its not hard to imagine Kuwait being pushed into the dark ages by way of a religious state which has no place for individual liberties.
Why are people putting up with their shit? Why aren’t there more people explaining to the voting public how dangerous this path is? the voting public should be made more aware of the ramifications and dangers of their extremist intent on not only freedom of expression in, but also it’s religion.
“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.” THOMAS JEFFERSON
“I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.” –Thomas Jefferson
It’s a pity the extremists in kuwait don’t share this moral ethic.
This has gotten annoying, I am locking the subject up.