Anytime I need to get any paperwork from the government I cringe. In the past month I had two papers I needed to get sorted and in both cases things didn’t go so smoothly. I hate how I have to approach all the employees in a way where it’s like I am asking them for a favor.
The first paper is related to a business I’m launching. To setup a company I need a paper from my sponsor giving me permission to start a company. I got that paper from him and went to Government Mall (located under the Liberation Tower) to get it notarized. When I presented the document the government employee took a look at it and told me the format was all wrong, he wrote down the proper format, I went downstairs got it typed and came back to show him. He told me it was fine and I now needed to get it signed by my sponsor. So I left and came back two weeks later with the document signed. I went back to the same employee and handed him the signed document, he looked at it and was like what is this? I explained to him what it was and he once again told me it was in the wrong format. I was like what do you mean its the wrong format? You wrote it for me, I got it typed and approved by you and all you said I needed to do was get it signed which I did! He was like no this is the wrong format. I asked him if he could write down what I needed to change, he told me he won’t write anything and then shooed me away. I’m now getting someone to get this document sorted for me since I can’t deal with that crap again.
The second paper I needed to get was permission from the police to replace my damaged bumper. I headed to the Salmiya police station and walked up to the information desk and told them what paper I needed. They instructed me to go into the first office on the left. I went to the first office on the left and the police officer there told me to go upstairs. I went upstairs and there were three rooms but only one was occupied. So I walked in and waited until the two police there finished their conversation before I asked the cop seated at a desk about the paper. The cop told me to go to the office next door. I told him I did but there was nobody there. He then got agitated and told me obviously there isn’t anybody there since its his office and he can’t be in two places at once. As if I was somehow supposed to have know that was his office. So I go wait in his office for a few minutes and then he walks in. He’s like I need you to get me a photocopy of your license, car registration booklet and your civil ID. I thought to myself why couldn’t you have told me that earlier instead of making me wait here. So I leave the police station and drive to the nearest photocopy shop and then come back with the copies. I go upstairs again and this time the same cop is sitting at a desk in the third room. In my head I thought that was hilarious because it felt like the police station had only one employee who changes offices and pretends to be a different person every time. He ends up filling up the papers and then sends me down to the Salmiya area commander for one last signature.
How I hate this. I know a lot of people (mostly Kuwaitis) would disagree with me on this but I would rather they replaced all the ministry employees with expats. When was the last time you walked into McDonalds and was greeted by a grumpy employee who made you feel like he was doing you a favor?
75 replies on “Just Like You, I Hate Dealing with Government Paperwork”
Youe are 100% right and I agree with you.
Wait until you deal with the Canadian government sector and their unprecedented bureaucracy and you will much appreciate Kuwait afterwards!!! They don’t have a centralized record about you and they expect you to run from one place to another!!! They are literally 50 yrs behind Kuwait! As for customer service I don’t think that they ever heard of that! God bless Kuwait!!
Sorry are u referring to Canada in North America? Because starting and doing any business in Canada could be done ‘entirely’ and I quote entirely online! That’s not magic, this even applied in dubai! I have multiple business running out of there and from the incorporation onwards was done via their respective websites. U are confusing the bureaucracy level of what mark is referring to here. Also, the least said, in Canada they might be old and rigid sometimes but never at the expense of getting ur work done, log in to the website and they will dictate what u exactly need.it takes 5 days to get ur business tuning in canada vs 31 in kuwait, and the later could be argued.source world bank
Yes, when you deal with business they do that because they are desperate for money and investments so they dedicate teams to help in that.. But as an individual “which is the case here” you go through nightmare to get your work done. They even don’t have a centralized record about you as an individual living here, you need to write a letter addressing this and that and explaining and you still need to send that by “Fax”!
@They even don’t have a centralized record about you as an individual living here
you must be kidding :)))
I wish I was….!!! I have seen wonders trust me!!!! and by living here I mean “inside Canada”! Not to mention they are fully relying in Faxes which they usually lost! Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh
what does this have to do with Canada?
and then the comparison should be with a better country in order to improve ourselves!
+1 There’s no need to compare, not unless you’re referring to canada dry, 3rd ring after road 55.
+1 for Canada Dry Street 😂
This is the most ignorant comment I have read in this thread.
I am tired by the kindness of people telling me sorry multiple times, just for bumping slightly on the buses in Canada.
Sorry, hope you have everything you need sorted. But that was hilarious. Same officer pretending to be a different person, LMAO !!
“I know a lot of people (mostly Kuwaitis) would disagree with me on this but I would rather they replaced all the ministry employees with expats”
I disagree… because I would rather they replaced the ministry employees with a computer. So much of this paperwork could be automated to a huge degree but it would put people out of jobs, that’s the only reason they don’t do it.
100% thumps up
Mark I am sorry but I laughed my ass off reading this. Again sorry to laugh at your pain and I shouldn’t since I am moving there soon and will have a crazy amount of paperwork to do.
The follow is some of the paperwork that has to be done because my Kuwaiti husband has been out of the country so long.
-civil id for all 6 family members including my kids
-drivers license for 3 of us that drive
-authenticate birth certificates of 2 of my kids
-authentication of marriage certificate
-update marital status with the housing welfare office
Thats just some of the things I have heard him mention. So lol
I would like you and your readers to tell me how much time all of this might take. 1 month? 1 year? perhaps after the oil runs dry..lol ALSO I have heard that if you want things done quickly you have to get creative and maybe even ask the poor expats that mop the floors at the ministries to push the papers for you.
Any tips on getting stuff done quickly?
Yeah, be Kuwaiti with wasta.
No.
“I would like you and your readers to tell me how much time all of this might take. 1 month? 1 year? perhaps after the oil runs dry..lol”
With wasta 1 week 🙂
Without wasta after the oil runs dry 🙁
Hi Moving to Kuwait soon…
If you plan to do this by yourself, it coould take a month for the civil ID’s. Driving license, well good luck with that after all the new rules and regulations for driving liceses. The remaining could take a day for each or a month, depends on the mood of the employee.
If you want to save yourself the hassel of running back n forth, i suggest go through a service office that finishes all this paper work for you. It will be an extra cost, but surely worth all the hassel.
We all go along with the same never ending circle, I don’t fear having an accident as much as having to deal with the insanity that goes afterwards with the police ..
Even getting my papers sorted at any ministry sure gets me agitated, no solution except if you have a connection to pass things around which I certainly hate as well..
When doing government work, I always carry a bag with at least 5 photocopies of every possible document that I have. Plus personal photos, and a wallet full of 1KD notes for stamps.
I have all my documents scanned, and I replenish my supply after each government trip.
That’s fucking crazy , but can’t blame you at all 🙂
Not that crazy. Many long term expats do this in Kuwait. My father lived in Kuwait for 35 years. He always had folders with multiple photocopies and photos for every member of the family. Has saved him multiple trips, numerous times. It has also led to some seriously irked employess who use “photocopies” as an excuse to procrastinate. Then its fun to see what they want next. I live in dubai, still do this. Very handy, especially at the many consulates.
I feel your pain and sometimes I would want to burn these places down and restart it all over again. But as a Kuwaiti, the problem does not lay in changing to expats. it is the mentality and attitude type that needs to change. most of these problems started from expats bringing their bad systems from their own country… specifically Egypt.
talking about Egypt… in comparison, how is the authority system in Lebanon?
How is Egypt responsible for Kuwaiti employees who don’t want to work or work with an attitude. Second in defense of those Kuwaiti employees, Paper work is boring work, everyone who comes think they are vip or special. Remember that million person came before you and million person will come after you. To them you are just a single transaction in a sea of transactions.
wow you’re blaming the Egyptian expats for the bad mentality and attitude of Kuwaiti government employees?
OK, fine, but explain why?
How exactly did Egypt ruin the system in Kuwait? The employees in government places most of them require training in better communication,customer care and in efficiency in finishing their work. There is no nationalities here and there which causes this bad system.
As an Egyptian, I would advise you to read more about Kuwait history to better understand how did the great Egyptian men established lots of the great systems in Kuwait.You need to sit with old Kuwaiti men and hear their appreciation about Egyptian effect on Kuwait. You need to stop going to Egyptian doctors, deal with Egyptian lawyers, and the engineer that built most of Kuwait projects. It’s a shame to blame Egyptians about the bad attitude of some government employees.
That’s true, but not entirely.
There are no doubt few Egyptian, Indians, Lebanese, other people from different nationalities who contributed to the corruption. But could this possibly happen without having corrupted Kuwaitis too? I’m a Kuwaiti person, and I’m totally ashamed of what’s going on in my Country. The latest “brilliant” ideas I’ve heard few weeks back was that some government employees hire Bedouns to finish “their work” and they just give them something like 100 or 150KD.
If there is one good thing that we have to do for the sake of this country, it would be self-reformation.
Hielda:
As a Canadian, I am far from believing that my country’s government bureaucracy is all rainbows and unicorns, but your comment makes me laugh. The system may be oversolicited (we welcome a massive amount of immigrants every year, for example), but it IS centralized, efficient, and like many things in Canada, polite. I accept the dinosaur that is the Kuwaiti red tape parade because I choose to live here at the moment, but I’ve never logged so many miles on my car (or on my shoes) as I did since moving here. lol
Now imagine a non-white person with limited arabic knowledge going through the same thing.
I know how you felt. I have been through similar situations, and I am a Kuwaiti but the type who wear jeans & T-shirt, so I got mistaken for an expat initially. Oh, how easy life can be when you have Wasta, or if you know the person you are dealing with
Both of Kuwaities and expats face problems dealing with the government authorities. I don’t want anybody to change the argument later on, but simplifying the solution with replacing Kuwaities with expats is total BULLSHIT. U can go to the Municipality and deal with some expats and u will see how the same thing occurs from them. I can only imagine worse problems with expats replacing Kuwaiti employees in the government, because u didn’t change anything in the management or processes, and it is easier for expats to obey corrupted Kuwaiti upper management.
Regarding the good reception in Mcodanld’s it is because of the good upper management, I receive good treatment from Kuwaities working in telecommunication companies or banks because of good management.
The problem anywhere is with the upper management, and the long chain goes downwards.
In the US I dealt with different authorities, in most of them I had good experiences, but few were bad. Why? Is it because they are Americans and I am a foreigner? DEFINITELY NO, it is just because I dealt with places with bad management.
I hope u get more reasonable in ur arguments. I can simply say that advertisements in Kuwait are BULLSHIT because they are run by Lebanese, but that would be wrong. I will blame the Kuwaiti management that employed them.
+1
nothing in this world generally has one and only one reason behind it. So while you may be right, Mark has a fair point that at least the laziness, the unwillingness to work, the lack of need to dominate others, wont exist with expats as much as it does presently
I hate and fear going to govt. offices. If they could provide some online facility for doing the basic and recurrent things, it wud have been gud.
I am sure you would solve half of the traffic jams if this bullshit would be solved…
I am only dreading a traffic accident because of the hazzel with the police..
We all feel your pain, especially those of us who are limited with Arabic speaking. Good thing is you actually got someone’s attention as most of the females are too busy chatting on their phone or eating to do your papers. I was in Riggae doing some paperwork with females, after she got off her phone she did finish up and once she printed the paper she made me get her the paper from the printer because she didn’t want to reach over. Oh how I had to bite my tongue and just smile.
Being there gone through a similar situation, but changing Kuwaitis to expats will not solve the problem as there are some expats in the insurance department and their attitude is not less than the Kuwaitis. Request to government employees please learn to speak English.
Finally someone said it out loud !
What you need to do is befriend a police officer or somebody close to a police officer, and then you can get that paper without going to the police station or any other hassle 🙂
That’s part of the problem. It shouldn’t be this way. All ministry employees WORK FOR CITIZENS. This is supposed to be their job, not a chore nor is it a favor.
I also blame “upper management” or in other words the whole system, starting from the level of education provided, to the roulette table at Civil Service Commission (ديوان الخدمة المدنية), to the lack of job descriptions, to the short working hours, to the high wages (government employees should have the worst wages in the country (for Kuwaitis); this is the same worldwide– to actually boost production by encouraging people to work for the private sectors and contribute to the country.)
No, if you are a gov’t employee outside of the oil sector, you are most likely not contributing to the growth of Kuwait — growth comes from actual production (of both goods and services).
Remember: Petroleum accounts for nearly half of GDP, 95% of export revenues, and 95% of government income. [cia.gov]
But most importantly, we need to fix our education; which will most definitely have a trickle-down effect over the next few generations. In my opinion, this generation is impossible to fix, it is already too late. We’re used to this now.
End of the day, they are Public servants, not someone sitting on pedestal or Gods. Making things online should help … us and them.
True. Also digitizing requests will help prevent “lost” papers, and will have all actions on file so no excuses like “no I didn’t tell you”. Plus you save a whole lot of ink (stamp and signature) and papers. Its win-win.
This is too far-fetched for Kuwait unfortunately.
Correction: “lost” requests.
Since digitizing them will not include papers.
Yeah dealing with the Ministries is all about having Wasta. But EVERYONE has to deal with that problem wether they be Kuwaiti or Expat. I know this because my ex Wife had cancer and we had to go through the whole Wasta process for her to get to be able to do her treatment outside of Kuwait. I also have a close personal friend who is Kuwaiti whose mother was just recently denied from the help to go over seas because they don’t have Wasta. Yet, at the same time I have seen Bengalis cause accidents with their taxis and be bailed out of the problem using Wasta. I agree the system should be fixed. I am personally partial to making everything done online but even that has its negatives. Unfortunately changing the mentality of two generations that believe they were all born to be management is probably not going to happen, From what I have seen from some of this new generation of Kuwaitis… Just maybe there might be hope for some change.
As for the whole language thing… When my father left Puerto Rico to go to the United States of America he was always insulted and told that he was in America so he needed to speak English. This is a mentality that is still in existence there today. In my opinion , it is arrogance for foreigners to say that English should be spoken in the Ministries and that advertisement for event should be done in English. This is Kuwait, speak Arabic! I speak the language fluently, my father who is not Muslim has been learning it. Even my brother and sister have learned. What right do we as foreigners have to complain about the government operating in the Official language of Kuwait. That’s just my opinion.
i agree with you Unboricuaenq8, that’s why i decided to leave Kuwait and will be moving to US.
It shouldn’t be this way, but until it’s a proper ministry I will gladly finish my papers through wasta.
Can someone people answer my question:
Who exactly are the Kuwaitis working at these places, are they 7adhar or bedu?
No disrespect to anyone, I just need to understand what is going on at these government buildings
Please someone answer the question, who are these Kuwaitis?
It’s a good mix of everyone. 7adhar, badu, sunni, shi3i. It doesn’t make much of a difference. The main problem is with the system, not only the employees themselves.
As for understanding, that’s hard. It’s just corruption masked by further corruption — led by uneducated, ignorant, corrupt people that want to milk everything they can get their hands on before they get replaced by other uneducated, ignorant, corrupt people.(My point of view)
Downwards spiral.
+1
Everytime you need to process something, you’ll have to beg and even pay the authorities to process it.
Some gov’t employees would tell you that they are busy and we should wait for a while. busy with what? drinking tea and chatting with workmates. in fairness, there are few female employees(kuwaitis i think) who are dedicated to their job.
having friends and good relationship with the locals is good, what i don’t like is forcefully befriending them because they can be your wasta. being a parasite is out of my context but i have no choice. lol
I wonder if anyone here has tried going to the Registry of Motor Vehicles in Massachusetts. Now that is a REAL hassle and you can forget about Wasta. Just saying.
LOL all MVDs are a hassle, all around the world
went to the DMV @ melbourne ,FL today
can confirm.
ah…. the heavens opened up and let Mark experience what it means to be among mortals.
welcome to #reality.
I dare you to come to Dubai and visit our ministries, it’ll be a breath of fresh air! Visit where we update our driver’s licenses in Barsha, it is more sophisticated than any western country AND most Emiratis’ speak English, because I can assume that they hired qualified teachers to teach them English in government schools and everyone is courteous, there is a system in place. At the end of the day it is all about the quality of the government and in the UAE we have a superb government.
Yes the UAE has a suburb government that flogs people and stones them to death. I feel so bad for the Indonesian housemaid who was sentenced to death by stoning in Abu Dhabi.
Kuwait has a larger number of citizens who speak English than the UAE. Emiratis are so primitive, all Emirati women wear the abaya and how many Emiratis have Western university degrees? Less than 10% whereas Kuwait has 300,000.
40% of expats in UAE are Western expats. Western expats are only 1% of Kuwait’s population. Kuwaitis are not obligated to learn English, you are in an ARABIC country, you go learn Arabic. Most Emiratis don’t speak English, only a minority mainly concentrated in Dubai.
Imagine all that and not being able to communicate in Arabic. It’s like you want to cry. Like really cry.
When I was getting my Police clearance authenticated in the US it remindede of when I go to get government paperwork done here in Kuwait. The difference was that you had to take a number and there was no cutting in line. Also, there was no Wasta. I messed up twice and was told I had to take a new number everytime. Atleast everything is close by in Kuwait.
Unboricuaenq8: Bengali is from West Bengal, India. Bangladesh is a different country altogether (bordering West Bengal)
Once in a while, the heavens open up and let Mark walk among us mere mortals.
Welcome to #reality.
Hey mark,
I too, as a Kuwaiti, HAVE MAJOR ISSUES WITH THESE !@#%^%^& !@#$#$%^ @#^^… that’s how I hate dealing with them, you are right, you gotta basically beg them to have them do their work.
After 5 years of working, i learnt one thing, Kuwait is no different than any other 3rd world country.
Other than those few who take their work seriously, the rest (ESP) MOI employees will not help you unless you hint out that you could be beneficial to them later on.
I did the whole wasta thing, do you know how it actually works?
You send someone you know, to get something done for you (wasta), the 3rd party employee in govt sector would expect something back later from your wasta.
Concluding point, I would really like to see the entire government get privatized. we severely lack professionalism and general work ethics.
Mark, I’m surprised no one bothered. What business are you planning on launching?
I sincerely hope its a Burger joint or a cupcake store – the most original and refreshingly new business idea ever.
Not.
Actually, I can see Mark launching a new Magazine in Kuwait. I don’t know why but that’s my guess.
why would I take a step backwards and launch a magazine? I’m opening a cupcake joint.
Mmmmmmmmm cupcakes, I want some now!!! What flavors are you going to have?
Kuwait needs more magazines. Get your facts straight.
Magazines are dying.
The two things I dislike when doing government paperwork is 1. the long wait times and 2. how everything is unorganized/how many offices you need to visit or go to to do a single thing. Concerning the latter, there shouldn’t be any good reason as to why you need to go to so many floors or go to a different building in a different area of Kuwait to get a single document signed. It’s 2015, we have computers and our CIVIL ID’s have chips in them. I should walk in, hand them my civil ID, they scan it, pull up every facet of information on me, and click a button to apply for anything that I need. There needs to be a complete reworking of the system for the Internet age and it needs to be done in a logical way. What would be best is to make it fully online, but unfortunately that will eat into the un-firable jobs that so many Kuwaitis securely have.
It’s easy to see why it’s like this. There is no incentive to improve. Kuwaiti’s are handed the job, they do minimal, meaningless work for some of the shortest work times in the entire world (7a.m.-1p.m., but most arrive late and leave early) and it’s impossible to be fired (no real punishments). Factor in the people who work in paperwork only have a high school diploma and it’s a recipe for disaster. We would save so much time and thousands if not millions of dinars by computerizing everything, but what will happen to the cushion job of the current workers?
On the plus side, I’ve never had a single negative interaction with anyone. Of course I am Kuwaiti and speak the dialect, but with everyone I talk to I’m polite, smile, talk clearly and ask direct questions, and in return I receive the same politeness, directness and assistance. Every government worker and police officer has been nice to me.
@yousefq8.com
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Of course they are nice to you. You are Kuwaiti and so are they.
I just can’t understand the attitude problems of the workers in the ministries, if you don’t like your job then go and get a new one, or don’t apply for a job you don’t want to do in the first place. they make you feel like it’s all your fault that you their job job sucks. there are barely any signs to tell you where you’re supposed to go and if you ask them they get act like you’re bothering them, like you should already know where to go or they ignore you. it’s bullshit and it just makes everything take longer. there is no pride in their work.
This is why Kuwait is Kuwait and Dubai is Dubai!
That is why they always jail raped women in Dubai
I lived in Kuwait for 7 years and then decided to go back to the UK.
What you explained here my friend is why I left Kuwait. I actually left for another bigger reason and this is the government laws. Why should I stay in a country that does not allow me to do anything without a sponsor? A sponsor is like a master but reworded to make it sound its ok. Regardless of how nice and how strong your ties are with that sponsor, he is still a sponsor.
And they complain why Kuwait is so backwards. This law is what made this country backwards and I sometimes feel they intended to do it that way. The law has allowed Kuwaitis to act they are above the law, to be lazy and arrogant. If all expacts were to leave the country, Kuwait would be motionless and a desert.
Reading this scenario made me smile as I thank God I do not have to deal with stupid people anymore. The guy who made you go up and down whether in the ministry or police station is probably an uneducated idiot, just like they all are, who wants to feel in control because he, like everyone else, has a control complex.
My advice to Kuwaitis, if you do not wake up and do something about this and stop being lazy, the country will fall quick. Wake up because one day your petrol will finish and your fathers who were pampering you will vanish and no one will help you then.