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Automotive Information Kuwait

New speed cameras

I spotted new speed cameras on the First Ring Road. I think they measure your average speed because there are two cameras located at the start of the First Ring Road and two more located at the end. The first pair is located right after the highway 50 bridge if you’re heading from the Sheraton roundabout towards the Gulf Road. The road is only two lanes at that point and there is a camera pointing at each lane. The second pair is located right after the Istiqlal Highway bridge (road 30) when the multi-lane road becomes two lanes again.

The way these speed cameras work is they take a picture of your license plate at the first camera and then take a picture of your license plate after the second camera. It calculates the time it took from Camera A to Camera B and then calculates your average speed, if it’s higher than the maximum speed limit then you’re fined.

75 replies on “New speed cameras”

I hope these don’t start popping up everywhere, otherwise there are no more midnight runs with BAJS and his red GTR πŸ™

Not a really smart idea. average speed will never determine what was the highest and lowest speed . so if u are driving 200 km/h and you passed the first camera, the only thing you need to do is to pull over, call someone, sms others, read a book or a newspaper until you make sure u r below the average, then keep going.

another issue, is the first camera going to take a picture for every single car passing??? how many time the camera will be flashing at night??? we will be blind

Haha, we had a problem like in in Pre-calculus in High school.

@Pediatric dentistry it’s actually very good at determining if you were speeding or not. Who the hell is going to pull over half-way between the two cameras? That defeats the purpose of speeding! And on average you would have gotten through that faster if you had gone at the limit, instead of speeding then pulling over.

I wanna know how this shit works?
and I need a technical answer please.
is the first camera going to save all the plates on its RAM? till I pass by the second one as it will also take a shot for my plates and calculating the duration in between? or am acting like a geek here?

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Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)technology is used to time vehicles between two or more fixed cameras that are a known distance apart (typically at least several kilometers). The average speed is then calculated using the formula: speed = {distance \over time} . The longer distance over which the speed is measured prevents drivers from slowing down momentarily for a camera before speeding up again. As for storage ANPR Data Centre uses an Oracle database, with data for analysis extracted to a PostgreSQL database to avoid affecting core performance, and custom-written Java software with specific police networks rather than the internet used to send and receive data. The design of the system will also take into account future changes to the way cars will be recognised, such as electronic vehicle identification – when a unique identity chip is built in to the bodywork.

@hellraiser….very geeky explaination, didnt understand all of it, but what from what I did understand.
If there are 100 cars passing by in 2minutes, they are gonna be snapped by each of the cameras and the average speed will be calculated individually for every vehicle?
Another thing is whether or not the vehicle is over the speed limit, it is going to be snapped, which makes no sense.
Seems like too much trouble to go through and just too many loopholes.

You’re thinking of it as if a human is going to sit there and calculate. It’s very simple for a computer to calculate all this and keep track of all the speeds.

WTF!!! outside they put cameras on danger curves or streets that are designed with low speed, and guess What?? they make sure that you see a warning in yellow Road is monitored by radars or Camera sign . I saw that on Top Gear mentioned by the minister of the transportation of England.Here all they want is to gain money. Who will slow down if nobody noticed that there is camera ???

I know why are they putting these cameras the i was out with my friends out the other day and a couple of street racers were gathered out at the first ring road the saw the cameras and moved to the 40th road and they raced there

so i think it is there to catch these guys in action

and the race was awesome a hayabusa bike and a corverte really fast and loud

So the first camera will snap a picture, then when the second camera snaps another picture, it will calculate you average speed based on the time difference between the two shots and the distance between the two cameras, which is predetermined.

There’s a flaw in this. Even if you pass the camera at 100kmh (and the limit is 80kmh), and assuming the distance is 1km as previously mentioned, you can actually very easily beat the system, simply by slowing down below 80kmh (in this case down to 60kmh) at least before reaching halfway between the two cameras and u shouldn’t have any problem.

Or a much easier way would be if you passed the camera at 120kmh and at the same time another car passed at 80kmh, all you need to do is slow down and pass the second camera next to the car driving at 80kmh, because in the end you both passed both cameras at the same time.

lets say that you pass the first camera and get snapped, but exit the road before you pass the second camera, how long is your picture stored in the memory?

I spotted one of the cameras and wanted to take pictures for Mark. Good job Mark.
I doubt they measure average speed, too many exists in between (according to your description since i only saw one) which defeats the purpose. Drivers will be naturally existing at 30.

People in KOC will be very familiar with this. These have been installed in the Oil Fields (Burgan, Magwa etc.) about 3 months back.

It doesn’t ‘snap’ your picture when you pass by the 1st pair of cameras, it uses laser/infrared and stores your plate no. and if you pass by the 2nd pair with an average speed higher than what is allowed over the stretch b/w the cameras, then it sends your plate number to the system and you’re fined.

And yes, there’s no flash like the conventional speed cameras we have or any indication that all this is being done – even at night.

This just doesnt make any sense, to actually fine us they first have to telll us that these two cameras exist!! And i totally disagree that this action is designed to save lives. If u want to save lives then drive carefully, not slowly. As a matter of fact most accidents occur cuz too many of these so-called ‘slow-drivers’ occupy the left lane where fast drivers should be.

Dont hate our cars, hate the system.

@Ramez: IThese are used extensively in the UK and I have a friend who works with them. The simple answer is that they use very similar technology to the kind used by large casinos in Vegas for facial recognition. The are pre-programmed to reognise thousands of types of car, but the main thing is that they recognise your plate number. At night they use infared, so there is no flash. Many car parks use these in the UK now as well. You get the first couple of hours free, then you have to pay. If you leave after say 5 hours, you get a fine delivered to your house!
The most reliable way to ‘trick’ the camera is to have a glitter/sequin piece of cloth attached above your plate that is free to blow in the wind. This confuses the recognition software as it shows a different shape at each camera. But, it must cover part of your plate to be effective and the UK police will stop you straight away if they see it. Not so sure here!
@Moe Jr: They allow enough time for the speed limit. For example, if it’s 1km and the speed limit is 60kph that means youshould take 1 minute or more. If you pass the 2nd camera 30 seconds after the f1st, you are going too fast and it will catch you. However, if you haven’t passed after 60 seconds, it deletes the data. This is because you may have turned off onto another road, or you have obeyed the speed limit. Also, you may have stopped.

The two things to remember are that a) the cameras are generally only 1-1.5km apart, so it’s hard to slow down, then speed up again with any effect.
b) The latest versions also include regular radar technology that – in the UK – is set with a 10% tolerance. (It will catch you at 77mph, where the limit is 70mph) In Kuwait, the regular radars seem to be set with a 20kph threshold. You can pass them at 139kph, but if you’re doing 145kph, you’ll get flashed.

Lesson over πŸ™‚

@Othman Al-Othma. If you pass the first camera at high speed and then realize it and slow down before you reach the second camera – I think the objective of the system is met. i.e. to make you slow down.
Of course, they will also keep the current speed cameras to catch those who suddenly speed up in places.

It has worked amazingly well in Dubai so heres hoping it works just as well in Kuwait. Initially, people will end up paying a lot of money but will eventually get fed up of giving up their entire salary to the MOI and will eventually learn to obey the speed limits.

Moe Jr., why do you ask? You’ve taken the exit and no way will be fined or recorded by the 2nd camera. I wouldn’t care if I were you.

But if you’re that curious, I would like to think this way as an example:

Distance b/w 2 points is 100km, speed limit is 100kmph. If you have NOT reached the 2nd camera in 60mins (meaning your average speed is not exceeding the limit or you’ve taken an exit or your car broke down or you drove around in circles and zigzags), it probably deletes your record.

I love it – people here are trying to figure out how to bypass speed cameras (nothing new), but what about you know – not racing on public streets? Have you ever thought of that? 1st ring road isn’t exactly a freeway with all the traffic lights. Go to a race track and risk your life there.

Kkamal: even though there are too many exists in between, it doesn’t matter. It’s like saying the speed camera on the gulf road is useless because people take the 4th ring road instead.

Is there any confirmation that these cameras are used to catch speeders? ANPR is used in Kuwait in a number of places for security reason (Messileh Rd.) and they are not used to catch speeders.

These cameras might also just be part of the traffic system where you can tell traffic conditions on your GPS and choose the best route (This is currently being installed).

I’m also pretty sure that the MOT cannot enact a new kind of camera trap without parliament approval. They were instrumental about a year ago when they voted that all camera car’s have to have a camera warning triangle 100m before (saved my ass a few times). They also wouldn’t approve the proposed new fines which were being circulated by email earlier this year (where some offenses cost as much as KD300). Thank you parliament!

Adam: no this is just my guess and not a fact. But there are two cameras at the start of the road and 2 at the end which is what lead me to think these are not security cameras but in fact speed detectors.

It’s Really Unfair !

There Is A Big Hole In The System And It’s Calculations !

Ministry Of Interior Thinks About Money Only ! If They Really Do Think About (Saving People’s Lives/Reduce Car Accidents) There Is Better Ways To Implement!!!

Actually thats not true. If the MOI only cared about money they would increase the speeding fines and hide the cameras like they do in the UK. On the other hand in Kuwait they inform you if there is a camera and the fines are nothing (unless like you me you happen to get 23 tickets in one month)

I hope this will be the end of speed freaks, ra7at 3alaikom. Go vent your frustrated life on ur own family in you home not on the streets where our families drive!

And for those that say speed doesn’t kill?! Go tell that to the widow and orphans of my cousin who passed away when a teenager speeding at 180 km hit his car on the 6th ring rd.

@GXR. I agree with you. There are better ways to implement safety (such as educating the drivers, better control of issuing licenses, strict adherence to points system, mandatory comprehensive insurance linked to your driving record etc.). But I believe we should also use deterrents like these if we can get results faster, and save lives on the road.
As you can see from the comments above, people are already looking at ways to break the rules – even before they are implement (if at all). lol.

I doubt these are cameras that averages your speed, though I kinda wish they were. First, installing such cameras in Kuwait will indeed solve the speeding issue. As we have all experienced with our government they don’t really intend to solve anything. Hence finding a real solution to a problem makes no sense at all in Kuwait.

Second thing, I believe installing such cameras will require having more than just two cameras with long distance between them, AND putting this kind of technology the ministry would at least publicize it.

In reference to some of the remarks that said the average speed cameras are useless… they are absolutely wrong. Say you’re driving on a highway, traveling from point A to C will take you approximately half an hour if you travel it at speed of 100 km/h (the speed limit). Assuming there are cameras installed at point A, midpoint B, and final point C, whenever you cross the speed limit, you’ll reach either point B or C quicker, and thus you’ll be eligible for a speed ticket or a fine.

Pointless? this tackles the exact problem we have in Kuwait and probably the reason behind most accidents that take place. Problem in Kuwait is the behavior of the drivers… while our highways can take driving at high speeds, the way some people desire to slow down on the slower lanes make people swivel between traffic. if these cameras speed limits were controlled in such a way to adapt to the current traffic status, the speeders who swivel between traffic (and cause most of the accidents) will be caught. Furthermore, those people who drive in maniac speeds, stick to ur bumper and flashes you, but once they reach a speed camera slow down, they wont be able to do this anymore.

when was this installed??…im always doin 120 – 130 on 1st from the sheraton round about till 30 and vice-versa…6 days a week…am i going to get a bunch of fines???

Speeders will speed no matter what, their uncle/cousin or whomever they have in the police will make it so a fine never hits their record. This is the main problem. Remove this and overnight people will start respecting the laws.

Laws are only as good as their enforcement.

Hope they install them all over the country ! First thing highways, The deaths in this country is way over board ! And i wish MOI do something about their 5 minute shitty test even a 12 year old will be able to pass it with his eyes clothes, MOI thinks driving is only parking, go check out UK’s driving test, the instructor evens penalizes you if your clutch change was shit !

And something else, no one wants traffic jams in the morning, why don’t the MOI enforce a speed limit of 70kph between the hours of 6:30 – 8:30 i bet that would solve everyone’s problem, it worked in the UK !

its fun seeing people that think they have found the way to outwit the newest forms of technologies. they say its useless, they say slow down till u reach the average. dont you think they tested these cameras over and over and over again to look for loopholes before they are commissioned for use?

they are not useless, if they really are the cameras that average speed, then we are in for a few more fines per month, at least until new years, when our new years resoltuion will be to finally stop speeding πŸ™‚

“Actually thats not true. If the MOI only cared about money they would increase the speeding fines and hide the cameras like they do in the UK.”

Thats not a true statement, In the UK, Cameras are painted florecent yellow in order for the driver to known exactly where they are located. It is done so by law as they can not hide speed camera traps without the motorist knowing where they are.

i saw the pair near road 30,will check the other cam in the evening……..

Does anybody know wht is the average time to cross the 2 cams………….

Zoom by the first camera and take a stop before you get to the second one, calculate the time that would keep your average below the speed limit and take off again.

@3azeez: You’re so right. Speed is not usually the issue. Drive in Germany and you’ll see cars doing over 200kph, BUT they are all well-educated drivers.
They don’t get licence through wasta, they have to pass a written (now computer,) exam and pass a very strict practical test too. The same in the UK.
So many accidents I’ve seen here in Kuwait are purely driver error.
How many people driving in Kuwait know what the reaction time is when travelling at 120? How many know the stopping distance? Answer: not many. Reason: they are not required to know it.

How many people know the correct way to use a roundabout? Hardly anyone! (Hint: do not use the right lane if your going left guys!)

Please look at this and educate yourselves!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NonUK_Roundabout_8_Cars.gif

@AndyQ8: I totally agree with you the roundabout thing. The vast majority does not know how to negotiate one and many take the outer lane blocking all exits. Its so frustrating for someone who knows the rules. How many in Kuwait take license without wasta? Not many, and thats the whole problem.

easy way of passing the test

do 40 km for half the way

pull over have a cup of tea , read the paper ….. etc take 5-10 mins

then do 240 through the next one πŸ˜›

There are testing this system on the first ring road now. Dont worry, you will not be fined even if you speed under those cameras until Feb 2011. Their manufacturer, which happens to be from singapore claims a success rate of over 95% in capturing a speeding car in every 50 cars passing.

you will notice police cars speeding on the 1st ring road every now and then to test them.

If they turn out to be good. you will see them everywhere. their maintenance cost is lower than the current “cannon” by 20%! but their capital is higher by over 50%…

How about just not speeding/ How about having the traffic police actually do their jobs instead of sitting under the overpasses?
Police here are so lazy, I’ve seen giant SUV’s blow past a traffic patrol without fear. Try that in any civilized country.

shibi: driving tests here don’t teach you about driving properly on roundabouts so it doesn’t really matter if you pass with wasta or not.

Al-Othman: Agree with you. What has the reverse parking (which is considered the toughest part of the driving test)got to do with actual driving on the road. But whether its part of the driving test or not, driving instructors should be teaching new drivers on many aspects of driving including negotiationg a roundabout. But are the present driving instructors really qualified?

I really hope that you’re wrong and they’re just there for security reasons coz its near Dasman palace.. πŸ˜€

That 1st ring road is a real problem some drivers there would get on your nerve ! If the road limit is 80 and everyone does 80 it wouldn’t be a prb, but if the road limit is 80 and ppl do 40.. especially huge buses and old broken down cars, its not fare to judge us for doing 80+, and nowadays, there’s no chance of being on the speed limit and driving on the left lane which theoretically should be free of those slow cars, but you cant! They shouldn’t fine us for going fast, they should start to fine those who are going too slow instead!!

Just came back from Dubai and if the speed limit is 80 everyone including buses and pick ups are doing around 80.. No traffic jams due to slow cars just hovering around in a major road.

Drive safe everyone.. if you want to speed then speed, but respect other people on the road and just stay on the left.. People that go all the way from left to right then right to left, just make our roads more dangerous to drive on, and if your on the road and its 120 km/h, don’t do 100 on the left lane –> Make way..

And i hope we get something official on those cameras, @Mark.. if you can get me the brand thats’ written on the camera, the pictures weren’t really clear here.. TC All Drive Safe

These are traffic control cameras. it is part of a network connected to the electronic panels which were installed last year.they will give information to a control room and they will show the information on the panels (i.e. warning accident, traffic jam, those heading to salmiya take road 30)

they do not have infrared illuminators, unless they are the newly tested GPS based speedspikes. if this is the case, they use GPS in order to calculate the car’s speed, but this is still globally under test and has not yet confirmed its efficiency.

why do people keep trying to prove these cameras wont work? lol and why do people keep suggesting zooming by the first camera and then taking a 15 minute donut break on the side of the road before zooming by the second camera? why not just drive the speed limit all the way thru, you will still get to ur destination in the same time it will take you to have that donut break.

shttt i speed all the way till the duwar EVERYDAY at least twicee over 100. how many fines am i going to have now!!!!! i didnt know they even worked cuz i never saw a flash!!! stupid

now all we need are cams or a device to detect:-

1. Zig Zag driving.
2. high speed bumper-to-bumper
3. mobile usage for texting/chating.
4. flying debree hitting your window shield from cars that overtake you on the hard shoulder

The traffic cams in Kuwait are Traffipax Speedoshot units marketed through the world by Traffic Pax Inc. from Jupiter, FL.

This company is privately held which makes them perfect candidates for the type of “encouragements” that facilitate and underwrite contract awards.

Back to the point; the frequency they operate on is 24.125 Ghz K band radar. The unit works on the principal of “Doppler shift”; meaning the radar waves are bounced off of the approaching vehicle and read by the radar unit. The bounced (or reflected) radar waves are slightly compressed as the vehicle is driving towards the radar sensing unit. This compression or “squishing” of the radar waves due to the speed of the approaching vehicle causes the frequency to change (or shift) depending on the speed of the vehicles.

In simple terms, the signal of the radar gun is 24,125,000, 000 Hz. (Radio Kuwait 97.7 FM radio signal by comparison is 97,700,000 hz)

For every mile per hour the car is traveling towards the radar sensor it “squishes the signal” by 103 Hz. (62 Hz per kilometer)

Why is this tidbit of information important? Because it is possible to detect and transmit your own frequency shift back to the radar unit and SET your own speed.

Simply done by detecting the exact frequency of the radar unit (in Kuwait 24.125 Ghz) and return a signal with a 7440 Hz frequency shift at a power level that would overcome the radar units signal. (Which is not much)

The radar units power is typically 20 MW or .02 watts by the time the signal is transmitted, reflected off the vehicle and returns to the radar unit; it’s power is very weak. It is easy to overwhelm the reflected signal with a transmitter. (regardless for of the db gain of the antennas- for the technically-minded out there)

…and yes, it works. It is possible to control the frequency shift and “dial in” the desired apparent speed.

Cost with engineering is well over 500 kwd. But it is fun to watch. Ironically you can set the speed to 250KPH (maximum speed of the radar unit) and drive by in a Toyota Corolla. But for the price and possible legal issues, it is better to just obey the law.

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