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Complaints Fashion Kuwait

Fakes out in the open

Last week Danderma posted about this hidden place in Kuwait City that sold fake designer items. She was surprised to why the place hadn’t been shut down yet. Well there is a whole shopping mall in the middle of Salmiya with all the stores in the mall selling fake handbags from the likes of Gucci, Channel, Prada and Louis Vuitton. There isn’t a hidden entrance, or a long winding maze to get to these stores. You don’t need to know the salesman so he could reveal the fake bags in a hidden back room. These fake items are proudly displayed in their main window displays and out in the open.

Why is this being allowed? I am sure this is hurting the business of those brands a lot. Why aren’t these stores being shut down and slapped with a heavy fine? The stores are located in Mounira Complex across the street from ABK near Marina Mall in Salmiya. Same complex that has Eastpak/Jansport and Kwik Kopy.

136 replies on “Fakes out in the open”

After purchasing a bag for almost 450 kd from the LV dealer in Salhiya Complex, I exchanged it after inspecting it at home. The bag that I wanted to exchange it for was also a fake and I pointed out the LV being sewn into the seams of the bag is NOT an authentic workmanship. He agreed with me after arguing and consulting with his boss (outside the store). He returned and gave me CASH while the receipt clearly stated 30 days for exchange NO RETURNS….What does that tell you? It tells me that they know what their doing and don’t want any problems. BUYER BEWARE!

that place has been around for ages… and if u ask the guy, he will tell you that there are grades of fakes, the better the grade, the more expensive it is

hurting business??? its not like we have a sane market! Look how crazy IBM/Lenovo prices are because their local distributor is controlling the market, same thing applies to leica geo products, cars of different brands, and just about everything sold in kuwait.

They are not fakes.They are mere imitations or inspirations of some so called branded bags etc that sell for a very high price to rich people who like to spend money regardless.Fakes or duplicates are a different story.

Apparently there exists a market in Kuwait for these kind of goods and there are consumers for it mostly the middle class Arab people.I guess one way is for the authorities to educate the consumers that it is wrong to buy mere imitations,fakes or duplicates and they have to buy the original bags from the correct dealers for the correct price,no more,no less and no bargains.

The authorities should alert the dealers and also place advertisements in the leading Arab daily’s in Kuwait and warn the consumers that there are fakes in the market and if they want Gucci, Channel, Prada and Louis Vuitton they should contact the correct dealers or the address below.

Also they can start a help line for people who have already brought the fake items and aid these people how they can buy an original for a higher price at the correct original dealer.

And also they should ban all Chinese made product in Kuwait.

omg ! no wonder most girls carry 500KD purses everywhere ! i was begining to think that i’m poor because i buy one original bag every 1-2 years lol

Its definitely not hurting the business of the original vendors. People who buy fakes either can’t afford to pay for the original, or weren’t going to buy the original anyways.

I doubt fakes really hurt designers as much as they claim. the people that buy these goods usually wouldn’t spend obscene amounts on the originals anyways or may not have that type of money available to begin with.

I know that some people that can afford the real deal and still buy fakes but they most likely are too frugal to spend a wad on a real designer bag.

For those of you who think the brands aren’t losing money with fakes you’re being naive.

Why would someone want to spend KD300+ on a LV bag when there are tons of people are walking around with the exact same bag but fakes. Would you rather spend 300KD only to have people think you’re carrying a fake or would you rather spend KD300 on another high end brand or less common model so people know you have an original? That’s not good for LV.

Then you’re saying that the people who buy fakes can’t afford originals anyway. Who said? There are many people who buy fakes because they want a high end bag but not want to pay the hefty price. They can afford to pay the price but they just choose not to or don’t think a bag is worth paying that much for especially when they can get a similar one for 1/10th the price. That’s not good for sales.

I can’t believe some of you think it’s ok to sell fakes. It’s NOT.

3azeez: We are not talking about people importing grey products and selling them for cheaper than the dealer. The issue here is these are FAKE products that are being sold not originals for less than the dealer.

Also just an FYI, most of the time the stuff costs less in Kuwait than they do in Europe or cost the same (talking about bags). Of course you also have some items that might cost a bit more but that’s how it is everywhere. Check the Gucci prices in the US website, add the tax which is around 10% depending on the state you’re in. Then pass by the local Gucci dealer here and compare. High end watches? Trust me the prices here are cheaper than abroad.

We’re actually pretty lucky that Arabs in general like bargain hunting and discounts even if they’ve got millions and millions of Dinars.

Saleena: You can’t ban all Chinese products. Chine produces a lot of consumer products that are original, for example the iPhone, it’s made in China. What you meant to say was ban all counterfeit products regardless of where they come from.

some ppl dont mind wearing fake with bad material and desgin than spending more on original once .. i just wonder how they get to pass from the customes and in meanwhile we read at the newspaper that customes has catched and stoped fake items ???

Go check out wataniya complex in salmiya its happening over there lol

ANything u want bro out in the open there is even a shop in Omnia Complex called Abercrombie and it sell fake abercrombie

I agree with Mark… selling fakes isnt right… if you think kuwait is too expensive, just go online and look for bargains, they are everywhere… most of the people overseas actually buy online and get it shipped, costs much cheaper

I’ve seen fake Prada sold on the streets of newyork man, pls leave fakes or whatever you call them and see what’s really happening to the whole country

Dear Mark,

With all due respect –

Shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup!!!!! Some of us still want to buy them!

Personally, I would rather see the baladia cracking down on more important matters. Maybe food inspections at restaurants. Maybe planting more trees. .. I could go on.

Mark,

I do not appreciate being called naive. What you said exactly reinforced my point. Someone that originally was not going to spend 300 KD on a bag because a fake exists will not go spend 300 KD on a bag in the absence of a fake. This doesn’t mean that they can’t afford it necessarily, just that they do not want to spend 300 KD on a bag.

Why buy an original over a fake you say? Ask yourself and anyone else who has ever bought a luxury product.

By the way, I do not agree with them being sold I just don’t agree that they hurt are a threat to the original vendors.

The biggest threat to the luxury retailers is probably the internet, not fakes.

Why I say ban Chinese goods in Kuwait is for benefit of all people.I don’t know if you ever follow news regarding abuse,dead at factories etc.The western world and corporations like Apple post a huge profit,what do the Chinese poor man get nothing.Communism has turned into a dark capitalism with the red blood of the Chinese people in their governments hands.(Due to censorship you will never know what happens in China)

When you get time,have a look at this ebook available and published online by (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamyang_Norbu) on you IPad(Made in China) just to understand the root problems.

Extract:

One particular section of the
report on a handbag factory describes such things as:
14-hour shifts, 7 days a week; 30 days a month average
take-home pay of 3 cents an hour; $3.10 for a 98-hour
workweek; one worker earning 36 cents for an entire
month’s work; 46 percent of the workers earning nothing
at all and actually in debt to the company; housed 16 to a
room and fed two dismal meals a day; physical and verbal
abuse; workers held as indentured servants; identification
documents confiscated and allowed to leave the factory
just 1 1/2 hours a day; 800 workers fired for fighting for
their basic rights.

* Buying the Dragon’s Teeth, High Asia Press, 2004, ISBN 0-9755371-0-5

https://www.igfm-muenchen.de/tibet/ctc/2005/dragontext.pdf

——————————

Plus check out the manufactures cost of an ipad

https://www.isuppli.com/teardowns-manufacturing-and-pricing/news/pages/mid-rangeipadtogeneratemaximumprofitsforapple,isuppliestimates.aspx

Mark people buying the originals, will never be caught shopping in a fake shop as their circle of friends are connoisseurs and will immediately get the gossip going. LV and the rest of the brands understand their markets very well and their sales forecasts is obviously not taking a major blow, if they were hurt, they would have taken action immediately. Besides fakes actually enhances the branding of such luxury items. If you go after bags than you might as well go after fake Chinese iPhones, which I doubt are bothering Apple or Rim.

Mark, thank you so much for bringing attention to this topic! These knockoffs are now more than ever seriously hurting the fashion industry.
It’s obvious some people don’t care but that’s just ignorance on their part. It’s setting the industry back BILLIONS of dollars and we need to do whatever we can to keep the industry booming. Because at this rate, there won’t be as many “inspirations” (bullshit from whoever said that btw, they’re just plain knockoffs) to look to at all.
It’s not like I’m walking around with a hundred designer bags and looking down at people who buy the fakes. I’m a broke college student so I understand the financial appeal of it all as much as anyone else; but trust me saving up will make the item a lot more special to you–and that’s the way it’s intended feel. Also, as somebody mentioned there are HUNDREDS of deals to be found online.
I just hope people realize what they’re doing is not only a crime against law but morality as well.

there’s a customs inspection at the port that’s real keen on inspecting brands for fake and for illegal importers (not authorized agents)

these bags were probably brought in from thailand in somebody’s luggage
excess baggage not inspected

Gunsmoke: I am not sure who told you that someone who buys a fake wouldn’t actually buy an original. How do you know they won’t spend 300kd on a real bag if they didn’t have an option of a fake one? You can’t assume everyone who buys a fake would never buy an original.

Hellraiser: Just like I told Gunsmoke, you can’t say no one who buys an original would buy a fake and you can’t say nobody that buys a fake would buy an original.

If you’re using the chinese iPhone example it’s because you’ve never actually tried or seen a chinese iPhone. Check it out and you will know why people aren’t buying it and hence why it’s not a problem to Apple.

Everyone has a point in one way or another, you can never assume who the taraget market really is,those who can’t afford it or those who can but are cheap. I have met really well off people who could afford a Louis Vuitton bag but not an Hermes, and since Hermes is the new trend and indicates whether you are “rich”, they tend to go for good quality imitations. I am not sure if it really hurts the “original” dealer, nevertheless its wrong and should not be allowed especially in a country like Kuwait. And Patrick, good one :D:D

1992-93, I went to Thailand and Taiwan I learned a lot about the fake stuff. I was working on my educational wooden products which Disney is considered a biggest looser of their fake products and I was told THEY can’t control the Chinese fake theft of brand names and the Australian were number one thieves as I was ripped of my own products given to the big guys in the toy business as I was a beginner. Before any one suggest WHY I couldn’t sue them. These giants in the market can steal any idea with 10% changes to become theirs.

I was taken in Taiwan into a place which till now I think as a female how I trusted the travel agent guy to walk into underground warehouse with cameras at the door and some security. The place was very large store of all fake –even nicer than the original as I know a lot about these original (with all due respect: I used to make fun of my Kuwaiti friends who used to buy the products just having signed name on the side or all over as what is this FOR — show off), any way. These places were for the Japanese people who are over sick too for brand names.

I’m sure Mark saw all the fake stuff laid on the ground of many vendors in NY.
IF you see the Chinese catalogs or any trade show and each catalog is about 500-2000 pages and some pages have four companies or one company have ten pages —- from: Gifts/ fashion/ home products/ electronic that you can choose any item and print your own company name and sell it with the price you want. IF you want tiny changes the Chinese will add pennies according to the extra’s you want.
This is one link of manufacturing: https://www.globalsources.com/

Look at the Hollywood dresses after the awards of all designers from $20-5K (thousands of dollars) in less than a week the public can buy such from $50-400.00.

The best fake in the manufacturing business that make stuff even individual item as I have done it when I was young NOT knowing much about copyrights/patents bringing pictures of even jewelry in Damascus or Lebanon specially in that time there was NO internet and hardly people traveled overseas.

If you want to know about your little mouse of the computer too:::: many parts made in Mexico and they tell you assembled in Taiwan……Nothing today is made in one place. Even underwear the cotton is imported from Egypt to China then made into materials then made in Mexico and others for Hanes written: Packaged in USA.

At the end manufactures do know and it will cost them more to go after such and some of them do doubles for their own rich customers the real, and some fake for the fool ( sorry) the truth hurt sometimes.

Mark please if this thing upsets you then start it by not downloading torrents just buy the original CDs/DVDs/Blu-Rays MPAA and RIAA are so mad at you buddy :/

Please for those girls who buy fakes..I CAN SMELL a fake bag 1000 miles away soo..ur only fooling urselves..There are a million stores that sell bags that are KD12 and KD 30 and its not a deigner but some stores imitate designer bags, why buy a fake designer bag ur gonna look stupid when someone that has the original will notice the difference almost instantly.IF u cant afford the bag then ur not the target market..it nothing to be ashamed of..being poor is not a crime but buying a fake bag IS..

Boss:

Those are completely different issues. Musicians get more money from touring than CD sales, designer brands only have one outlet, and that’s stores.

Also, one costs 10$ and the other costs way more. So, pretty weak argument.

Mark,you’re being a hypocrite. You complain about knock-off bags yet you buy counterfeit dvds and download torrents. How is that any different? And don’t tell me you don’t because some of your comments in a few previous post clearly showed that you do.

@ Patrick.That’s not a valid argument .So now you get to say what’s ok and what’s not ok to buy. It’s the principle of the matter.

^ The worst comment ever was Patrick’s.

Don’t buy fake hand-bags people, but its ok to download torrents and pirated DVDs.

The comments were a good argument till it got to that, and I really cracked up.

Mark: This is an argument loaded with “if’s”. Nobody knows who would or wouldn’t buy an original or fake. It is just one big guessing game.

IF selling of fakes is illegal then governments around the globe should address the issue accordingly. But lets not say the fashion industry is losing BILLIONS when none of us can prove it either way.

Nothing should surprise me anymore in this day and age.

The ones i saw being sold in that basement is a first degree fake. They are not even cheap. and they are 100% exact replica. And yes rich women are buying them.

The cartier watch even comes with an authenticity certificate. 140 KD.

Not every one is supposed to carry a Hermes. If you cannot afford one, simply do not buy it. Why do you have the urgent need to buy a fake bag? Even worse… why buy a fake bag when you can afford more than one Hermes bag? This is what i do not get.

and whether or not people are happy with their fakes. They are Illegal. Unlike the ones in Souq salmiya that are “inspired” by LV those ones in that basement come as the real deal “Bag/watch with authenticity card and real box” so laws are violated whether they are losing money or not.

Boss: Not sure what you think I download but I actually pay for my music, software and some tv shows (not everything is on iTunes). Movies is a different thing on the other hand for obvious reasons. When I am outside kuwait i pay to watch movies at theaters but I don’t pay to watch movies in Kuwait due to the way the movies get butchered.

Boss one more thing, the consumption of pirated software, fake goods etc.. is a less offense then the trade and distribution of the same. You don’t get executed for consuming illegal drugs.

Patrick – you got all wrong buddy. Totally.

When we say fake bags, there are a few things to consider. An exact replica is a fake bag and should be STOPPED. A bag similar to original or inspired by original can’t be really called a fake bag and as far as I know most of the shops in Mounira complex don’t sell exact replica. Its like buying branded clothes and somewhere in the street shops you will find similar designs, its very difficult to track it down and call it fake and illegal.

Apart from the people who buy it to look like they own a branded bag many of the Middle Class Arabs just buy a good looking bag!

Ofcourse replicas and imitation do make the business for originals difficult. And there are tons and tons of shops in Kuwait selling this stuff right under the nose of the authorities.

Kuwait:

My argument is the worst? Do some research on the record industry and you’ll see that the music companies lose more money off music piracy than the actual musicians, why do you think artists like Radiohead and NIN are selling their music online for cheap? It’s because they make profit off their tours.

So the argument that you should stop downloading music illegally doesn’t even relate to this debate.

Patrick: Artists make money off their music if its by touring or selling cds or by having their music used in a movie or ad. By downloading music illegally you are harming the artists. The reason bands like NIN and Radiohead sell their own music on their websites and for cheap is because they are removing the middle man and selling directly to us fans. Thats why they can afford to reduce the price and actually make more money. But that wouldn’t work for every band just super famous ones like them.

Check out Bandcamp.com, it’s a site that helps musicians sell music directly to fans, I’ve used it a few times to discover new artists, some let you download their music for free, while others have a ‘minimum charge’ which is usually 5$. You pay as you see fit.

I have to agree with gunsmoke. In a country such as the one we live in, what is on our backs (or in this case, our arms) kind of defines who we are. I highly doubt that a person who has a desire for luxurious items and purchases them frequently would go for a cheap knock-off just because its available. It is also very easy to tell if a bag is a fake or not by looking at the inside.

People don’t just buy luxury because its a status symbol. The texture, longevity and how you feel when you purchase it are factors as well.

Fakes shouldn’t hurt the business of originals. Most of us can sniff a fake miles away! No one can imitate Hermes bag… You can tell a hermes bag from the leather from far away. You ask why someone would purchase a KD 300+ bag if hundreds are walking around with the same bag in fake… well people are purchasing KD 2000+ bags because everyone else IS carrying the same bag.

A fake rolex doesn’t hurt the business of original Rolex.

A fake Rolex DOES hurt the business of an original Rolex. The people selling the fake Rolex’s are making profit and money off of other peoples designs.

Is it ok to steal images from flickr and use them in ads? Is it ok to steal music? Can I steal the Pepsi logo and use it for my new drinks company called Bebsi?

I don’t understand how some people think stealing is fine and no one gets hurt.

I also don’t understand how people assume that EVERYONE that buys a fake can’t afford an original or wouldn’t have bought an original if there was no fake.

Lets say if 90% of the people who bought fakes wouldn’t buy an original, you still have 10% who would have bought an original if there was no fakes. That’s customers the brands lost to fakes.

Knock-offs and imitations will always be there, it’s all up to the consumer what to buy. At the end of the day, whoever buys a knock-off knows and feels that it’s a fake (cheap show off) than someone using an original who feels proud about it. But I like the BEBSI part, nice idea.. I think 🙂

@MARK,

Even if it hurts the business of Gucci and LV, why the hell do you care Mark? I buy fakes and I know they hurt the original designer. I torrent all my music, movies, and tv show (even those which I can buy), knowing that I am hurting the producers. I have a dreambox knowing that I am screwing showtime and the others. I am happily stealing all the intellectual property that I want. Whats your problem? Why are you rallying against this? If you don’t want to buy the fakes then don’t, but do not imposed your moral code on the rest of us.

@ Mark,

Trash on the road affects everyone, but me buying a fake item does not affect you!

Your whiny post is attempting to get these stores shut down (although I am hopeful that no one will bother). This affects me! This is what I mean by imposing your moral code on the rest of us.

This is kind of similar to the prohibition of alcohol in Kuwait. I’m sure you would have preferred that the “beardy weirdys” not have imposed their moral code on the rest of us, and left it up to the individual whether or not to consume alcohol.

If you think its wrong, then don’t buy it! No reason to preach, and definitely not a reason to try to put someone out of business, thus affecting all of us who like to buy fakes.

Yeni if you like purchasing fake goods doesn’t mean you should be allowed to. What if a Kuwait fashion designer opens up a shop at the avenues where he sells his creatively designed tshirts for KD20 and then another shop opened up in Mounira complex selling copies of his tshirts for KD5. Is that also ok?

Money talks, Bullsh$% walks … sorry but alot of ppl will go for the knock off. only a small % will buy the original and that’s what it is. Not BILLIONS lost but yes some potential income lost.

@Mark,

I am not saying intellectual property theft is right. Although some will argue that it hampers the greater good (think patents on life saving technologies). I am saying that I know it is wrong, but I still do it, and I would like the freedom to keep doing it.

Prohibition is stupid and does not work, be it alcohol, drugs, or fake goods. You can buy fake Gucci in ITALY, and you can bet the law is strict there. You might have noticed the overwhelming comments are in favor of the fake goods (including your sister). That is why they will always be around, since most people want them.

My point was, and remains, It does not affect you! What you are doing here is no different than when someone calls the cops to bust someone who is smoking a joint.

Actually thats exactly what you were saying. Glad you understand the problem of allowing these stores to continue to sell counterfeit goods out in the open.

No one is saying you can end the counterfeit trade. What I am asking is why are these places allowed to sell these items right there in the open without any fear of getting prosecuted or shut down? How lenient is the law here? They’re not selling bags hidden under the table, they’re displaying them in their main window displays.

A better example you would understand, imagine those stores in Mounira complex were selling bottles of jack daniels and chivas in their window displays. Yeah we know that you can buy alcohol in Kuwait even though it’s illegal but you don’t see people selling them in their window shops.

They sell fake goods in NY, but have you seen how those items are sold? It’s like buying drugs off a dealer.

@Patrick..You comment that “Bands make money on tours so its fine to download via torrents” is silly. Something is either purchased legally or not. You cannot try to justify it by saying the original creator has other ways of earning income.

What about that software on your laptop? Is it all original? I ask because software developers do not do concerts. If it is, I salute you. If not, then get off your high horse.

Even Marks argument that he downloads movies via torrents because they are censored in Kuwait does not hold water. You choose to live in Kuwait – hence you have to live by the rules imposed in Kuwait. If you decide to go the illegal route and download movies, then you do not have a case to preach about counterfeit goods.

*goes off to download the latest version of Photoshop on torrents*

I think the example of the 300 KD bag gave the wrong idea.

Mark some good points earlier:

“Is it ok to steal images from flickr and use them in ads? Is it ok to steal music? Can I steal the Pepsi logo and use it for my new drinks company called Bebsi?”

I’ve had a poster design I made stolen and used for an event in Dubai, I found out by luck from a friend who lives in Dubai who spotted my photography/design.

Can I ask the people who admit to buying fake goods, why you do it? Are you that desperate to be trendy?

Cajie: I admit my argument about music was weak, I admit it. The Bly problem i have is how certain commenters insult each other without backing up their side of the argument.

Also, alcohol argument doesn’t really hold up, because it’s just illegal in some countries, where as selling fake goods is illegal everywhere.

cajie: As I mentioned above, I am not trading or distributing pirated movies. My post also wasn’t aimed towards people who were purchasing the counterfeit items. My post was aimed at the people who sell them.

Drug Dealer > Drug User

If they shutdown my favorite torrent site I wouldn’t have a problem since it wouldn’t effect me that much. On the other hand if you shutdown iTunes then I wouldn’t have a choice but to resort to torrents.

Mark: That was not the question. The choice is given to YOU to shut down your favorite torrent site because it is illegal. What would YOU do?

Regarding iTunes, it is not available in Kuwait. If you are bypassing the controls through VPN or other means, that is also illegal.

And while we are at it..Buying electronics through Aramex Shop&Ship is also illegal because those goods are supposed to be sold to U.S. residents only – and we are presenting ourselves to the seller (Amazon, etc.) as U.S. residents – which we are not.

It is very interesting to read people mind when it comes to ethics and morality. For me personally I admire and respect Mark of letting us debating the issues, but sometimes we drift off the real subject and I’m as one who had my trade marks and copyright and patents were stolen from me and I don’t agree on any one knowingly to buy fake products except if their EGO to show off as long as I find the right and good item from a dollar to 500 as long as I’m not hurting any one.

NOW, let us talk about the big guys ( Brand Names), when they price their item from$200-500+ what do you think this money is going to:
The designer
The lawyer (filing the patent), which is very costly
The advertisement crew
The marketing department
Rest of the employee
The rental which very expensive in the malls
Adding to big companies when they donate for charities world wide
SO, if we total these expenses at the end these people hardly making big money and THEY avoid big law suits because it is not easy to control the whole world finding the scum and thieves of selling these fake merchandise.

Like in US when AOL was in the big name, I had a friend whom I didn’t like her behavior, every year she changes her account with different credit card to get free month or two. I called AOL and asked them CAN I get the loyal customer free month, as I don’t like playing games. Guess what. Every year I started to get two months free and I’m happy to walk through such with pride instead changing my paper work and fool WHO, at the end (yourself thinking that you are smart). The same friend (no longer) asked if she can borrow my software of MS, I said NO, because I have to sign agreement on their license and trust me MS smart enough to know the original owner. Yes Bill Gate is very rich BUT, he had employee too to pay and if we all steal such, it is as taking these people income.

SO, attacking Mark to justify some people sleazy style of having things free doesn’t make you smart or better than these thieves who are selling the products. What I mean, we should reduce buying the items if you know about it. It is just my own opinion as I see million around me in US live on such freebies.

Also to upgrade some info: IF a company loose their rights to any patents and don’t file their renewal IT so hard to get it back as there is another thieves out there waiting to file against such to gain the rights. SO, you need also to learn about these laws before you keep attacking each other’s….

Medicine is worse than all this talk too. Like generic verses brand name and look what Canada also hurting the US market by selling generic which most of the times against the bylaws.

https://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400333/Are-Generics-As-Good-As-BrandName-Drugs.html

Well, on a positive note THANK you Mark for bringing good subjects to debate.

@people defending intellectual rights:
Have you all photocopied from a book without the permission of the author or publisher?

Mark..I thought that was obvious? Your original post is about stopping the distributor of illegal content and you also mentioned that “Drug Dealer > Drug user”. So I was asking you whether you would close down your favorite torrent site since it is essentially a dealer of illegal content?

Regarding Amazon..it is not their job to do the policing. You have provided them with a valid U.S. address and they are taking it in good faith.

Regarding iTunes..My registered iTunes account with a Kuwait address and a Kuwait credit card does not allow me to access the music store. You have something special that I don’t?

Cajie if it was illegal and Amazon wasn’t trying to stop you then Amazon would be in trouble. But it’s not illegal to purchase electronics off of Amazon and ship them to Kuwait via a forwarding mailbox. If it was illegal it would also mean that we wouldn’t be allowed to by electronics while in the US and take them back with us to Kuwait.

Mark, there are replica bags and then there are fake bags. The fake ones not only look completely different they’re also from different material, design and do not even have the designer’s tag on them.
The replicas however are the ones that are 99.99% identical to the originals. They’re the same material, design and come with a tag that is identical to the original. Hence they’re called replicas. You don’t see these products that much in Kuwait. Mostly in countries like China and Thailand.
Most of the products you see in the stores like the one you posted don’t really look like any of the originals. They simply have Gucci, LV or whatever brand written on them.

Mark..you did not respond to the other 2 portions of my query?

A forwarding address is very different to buying while physically in U.S. A forwarding address is just a loophole created by shipping companies to take goods out of U.S. when the manufacturer explicitly forbids doing so. I am sure you know that but you are just rationalizing your choice – as we all tend to do.

That’s why manufacturers (such as Apple, Sony, Abercombie, etc.) are more aggressive in checking the validity of the shipping address. Amazon is not a manufacturer so it does not care.

Cajie you seem to think Amazon are idiots and can’t block packages being shipped to Aramex. If abercrombie knows Aramex is a forwarding address so does amazon. If it was illegal and amazon knows about it they would be held responsible in the same way Torrent sites, napster etc were all targeted. It simply isn’t illegal.

Why would it be legal for me to fly to the US pick up a stereo and fly back but illegal for me to have Aramex ship it to me? Am I allowed to have a friend buy it for me and then ship it? Lol come on dude.

Manufactures prefer not to ship overseas to save them the hassle of customers abroad nagging them with warranty issues, getting confused with voltage or in the case of wireless devices other countries use a different frequency. There is no law in the US that states electronics may not be shipped abroad.

Abercrombie does not ship to Kuwait. However, they do ship internationally.

Why would any one have a problem, when ABercrombie can ship abroad?

“diesel says:
October 24, 2010 at 6:42 pm
@people defending intellectual rights:
Have you all photocopied from a book without the permission of the author or publisher?”

IF you put your comments in “—“ then add cited from———-or ask the publishers keeping their approval, they will respect you for that as giving them free advertisement too. Guess what! How many students lost their scholarship in US or won’t be in some universities after they plagiarized their essays.

To answer most of the questions wondering about what is legal or illegal. Everything today 80% is like twisted and stolen from each other’s. Don’t you read how Microsoft/ Google/ Intel/ Apple etc they are always fighting each others as they have insiders employee who steal tiny soft ware, etc.

Regarding shipping overseas from US and even with this comment as every word and letter world wide go through censorship. SO, Mark has no power in controlling who buys or who doesn’t as much as he is expressing his opinion. My brother does things differently from me, that doesn’t mean he is wrong and I’m right. Every one follow what they feel is right.

Besides, lately there are many lawyers world wide trying to write the Internet law of all entities because there isn’t exact text to follow who is right or who is wrong explicitly.

The last electronic item I remember being banned to export outside the US was the PlayStation 2 back when Saddam was in power. I think they placed a ban on PS2 exports to Iraq because they thought Saddam was using the PS2’s to control the WMDs.

NS says: “IF you put your comments in “—“ then add cited from———-or ask the publishers keeping their approval, they will respect you for that as giving them free advertisement too. Guess what! How many students lost their scholarship in US or won’t be in some universities after they plagiarized their essays.”

What the hell does referencing and quoting have to with photocopying?

diesel;

Somehow you were questioning if any one or if we have copied from books—etc, SO if my answer with the first paragraph was wrong by misunderstanding your comment, then I’m sorry.

Photocopying without permission is another form of theft if you want to use the copied stuff, you can read the disclaimer in each book BUT in case you want to live the hell of knowledge then these following resources might brighten your brain somehow. I’m sorry that I like decency in commenting, and I do defend intellectual rights:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_license

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_rights

This blog is for an Omani guy who is studying in UK the law of the Internet and the intellectual rights, which you hardly find Middle Eastern writing about such which is good for the Gulf like what AlQabas did to the young lady blog while ago. Now we are moving from the handbags to publication.

https://www.myitlawyer.com/tag/copyright-law-652008/

This debate can go on and on, and in the end, it depends on the person…. whether the stores are out in the open or hidden, or it being torrent sites… it comes down to ethics

i just have a question… whats the difference between buying a CD and torrenting it to the world and buying a CD and sharing it with friends so they can copy it on their computer? and the same goes for a magazine or a book when compared with torrented magazines? in the end, this all happens after one purchase

@ Moe Jr.
I’m sorry, but I don’t think that it come downs to ethics but rather it comes down to what an individual can afford.

@Mark

No matter how you word it, or choose to justify it DOWNLOADING MOVIES IS ILLEGAL AND CONSIDERED PIRACY. It doesn’t matter if you are not distributing it– you are still “watching/consuming” the counterfeit product. Your excuse is lame. Yes, movies are chopped in Kuwait, but you have the option of waiting for it to be released on DVD and then legally PURCHASING it via Amazon or whatever. Period. You are being a hypocrite, and you are acting exactly like the people who buy the fake handbags.

And BTW, according to the US MPAA, the movie industry lost $1.3 billion in the US, and $6.1 BILLION worldwide in 2006– I’m sure the numbers are much worse now…

@Mark
Neither is continuing to download movies off the net. If you want to halt counterfeit goods (of ANY kind) the solution is not to be picky about what fake product is ok to consume, and what’s not ok, the solution is to STOP CONSUMING THEM. Every person can make a difference. And hey, if it bothers you so much, but you know it will be a long-lasting issue, then simply don’t consume them YOURSELF. At least you’ll have peace of mind knowing you’re doing the right thing. But sorry buddy, contributing to movie piracy is not making a difference to your general argument whatsoever. It just makes you look bad…

@ Mark
then I won’t be able to go because you would’ve taken my spot and by doing so, you will leave me no choice but to download a torrent!

Hey, if you don’t watch it at the cinema, that’s YOUR choice, not anyone else’s. You just fed Cinescape 3KD. In the end, you still chose to download it off an ILLEGAL torrent website. So, you are basically still contributing to piracy and feeding the industry.

That’s like saying “Let me go pay for a non-alcoholic beer, not drink it, and then let me consume an alcoholic beer illegally off the black market…” What I’m doing is still illegal no matter how much I try to justify it to make myself feel good.

Stop trying to be sarcastic and just follow the rules…

If it makes you feel better about doing something illegal, then by all means go for it!

Now, let’s all find a way so that the handbag guy can sell his goods and make it look legal! Or better yet, let’s all try to find a way to get around buying drugs and alcohol so that we can make it look legal 🙂

Such hypocrisy I must say…

I think that downloading is a right that people have because they are paying for that privilege by having an internet subscription.

If downloading is a “crime” then surfing the internet should be FREE OF CHARGE and internet service providers should begin to charge people for what they download since that is technically like “owning” the material ones it is downloaded on your PC.

@TweeZ
My argument is not against downloading/etc, it is against Mark who claims to be SOOO against counterfeit goods (per his post), but then he is contributing to movie piracy– which totally goes against the whole meaning of his argument! It’s basically “movie counterfeiting.” If you are going to argue against counterfeits/fakes/whatever then don’t make yourself look bad by doing it on the side and trying to justify your actions based on your personal reasons. That’s what I’m trying to get at…

Please don’t misquote me.

First of all the post is aimed towards the distributors of counterfeit goods and not the consumers.

Secondly I’ve clearly stated that I am against piracy and agree with you that it’s the same as consuming counterfeit items.

Just don’t compare the distribution of pirated software, music, movies, counterfeit goods, heroine, cocaine and hash to the consumption of the same. Distribution and trade is a completely different ballgame which none of the readers here are involved in (I hope).

I hope this will answer many of you, as it is fresh as it happened two months ago. I live in what is called in US 55+ (senior citizen condominium) which we have Home Owner Association who runs our life with all theft thinking because of 55+ start to loose their patience, intelligence, living on medication.

WE have to show DVD (movies) in the clubhouse and because some board members voted yes to buy the projector and some voted no, we ended up buying the projector. Then some one knows that I will never do a thing illegal as I’m on the board. Try to pause the movie when it starts, it does tell you that it is against the law—etc.

SO, I did my investigations as you know or you heard how elderly people here (USA) are very cheap and will eat anything for free. SO the result when I called in Los Angeles for buying the license which was about $670.00 for 280 units NOT by the number of people and this fee is for one year, even I told the licensing company that we don’t charge any fees and we have only 20-25 attendees only….

THE law says and Mark will be happy now: YOU can watch/ download/ invite any one ALL in your own house (premises), the minute you show it in public – or out of the house THEN it is illegal. I even said it is nonsense BUT this is the text of the law. Even I was hated because I made sure most of the board voted yes or else they have to watch it illegally and I won’t attend telling the board if we get caught I will submit my e-mails SO he has to pay the penalty which it is $250.000. 00. Not to forget that we have here all illegal stuff and in Kuwait it is easier to get caught not like here, I see people with stolen stuff even amaze me how they leave the store and the sensor make noise and NO one even care. SO, at the end it is a personal thing.

I hope this answers your question, trust me three board member checked all my investigation because they thought I invented the law☺ ☺

People who are cheap will never buy an original whether they have money or not. And what’s the median salary of expats here? I’m not talking about the Europeans/Americans, but the laborers and cleaners. Some of them would work for years and years and never be able to afford LV, Prada etc. I feel for them, they’re human too. Let them have a “Prada,” even if it’s fake.

NS says:
“Photocopying without permission is another form of theft if you want to use the copied stuff”

No, its illegal whether you use the “copied stuff” or not.

diesel,
Are you kidding me? I said using such without permission SO—-IT IS legal if you ask the publisher, or take written permission.

Look around you if you have any book then read such disclaimer where you see the 3rd or fourth page of any book- see the copyright sign and all the rest info on that page and some have like credit for a photographer or others depending on the book – DO I need to explain now what ISBN means too.

SO, if I want to use a poem or go to flicker.com and read their policies as Mark said: Does it make it right for some one to steal some one else work. NO, SO what is your problem. I think I explained enough, do your study and follow what suits you.

NS,
Um, your quote is in black and white: “Photocopying without permission is another form of theft if you want to use the copied stuff”. Without permission means its illegal whether you use the “copied stuff” or not. You must have a language problem. First you thought photocopying was the same as plagiarism, then you said its theft only if you used the “copied stuff”. Your wrong on both counts. Sorry, buddy, can’t help you.

NS: Regarding downloads, you are quoting U.S. law which is not applicable in Kuwait. We are in Kuwait and we follow Kuwait law.

It is illegal to download movies in Kuwait because the MOI prohibits such downloads due to the content (sexual, language, violence etc.). It has nothing to do with money.

Actually, if you think about it, downloading torrents is a much more serious crime in Kuwait than selling/buying fake goods. The reason is because Kuwait government does not really care that much about fake goods being sold here. On the other hand, they are very serious about stopping downloads that violate the moral laws of the country.

Cajie not sure where you get your info from but there is no law in Kuwait towards downloading movies via torrents. I might be wrong though if you do have a link with info on this law please share it with us. Kuwait has just started discussing the introduction of digital laws, they r still far from anything though

Mark: I believe you have lived long enough in Kuwait to know that there is no not need for a “written” law to haul you into jail if they find uncensored movies on your computer.
Unless you are living in an alternative universe of Kuwait like the Fringe series.

Cajie: You said “It is illegal to download movies in Kuwait” and “they are very serious about stopping downloads that violate the moral laws of the country.” I was just asking if you could provide us with some more information regarding these new digital laws that I wasn’t aware of.

On a side note I’ve also never heard of anyone getting arrested and taken to jail in Kuwait because they had uncensored movies on their computer.

But just a tip, next time you watch a movie on Showtime that’s uncensored make sure you flip the channel quickly before you break the law and get arrested.

Mark: From the looks of it, they are not too bothered about the selling of fake goods either. So where is the problem?

If you want them to actively stop selling fake goods, then you should also support them to actively stop all torrent sites because both hurt only the manufacturers of the content.

Cajie I don’t understand how you understood that I am not bothered about the selling of fake goods when I dedicated a whole post about how wrong it is.

I also wasn’t disagreeing with the fact piracy is wrong, not sure how you misunderstood my quote above in which I clearly stated “I am against piracy”.

Now my previous post was in response to your point where you stated there is a Kuwaiti law forbidding the downloading of movies from torrent sites and that the authorities are locking up people who do. I just wanted to find out more information on that which I am now guessing you don’t have.

Mark: My point about it being illegal is not specifically about “downloading” uncensored content or laws related digital downloads or internet.

It is owning any un-censored content that is illegal. You are essentially owning it by virtue of downloading it. Unless MOI inspects and clears any media – it is illegal in Kuwait. Very simple.

Also, I said that the “authorities” are not bothered about selling of fake goods – not you.

Cajie: These are quotes stated by you which I wanted more information on because they effect all the Internet users in Kuwait:

“It is illegal to download movies in Kuwait”

“they are very serious about stopping downloads that violate the moral laws of the country.”

“downloading torrents is a much more serious crime in Kuwait than selling/buying fake goods”

I wasn’t aware there was any law regarding this or that the authorities were so aggressively trying to prosecute people. If you could give me more info I could write a post which I am sure everyone would want to know about.

Mark: Read my previous post. All the 3 statements relate to the fact that you end up owning un-censored content which Kuwait worries more than fake goods.

1. Illegal to download = Yes. Because you now own media that MOI does not want you to view.

2. Very serious about downloads that violate moral laws – see #1

3. Downloading torrent more serious than selling/buying fake goods. True. Because Kuwait is more particular about moral issues than those that affect businesses/manufactures in other countries.

cajie: So basically unlike what you previously stated there is no law in Kuwait that says downloading torrents is illegal and people aren’t getting locked up for it…

diesel,
OMG – LOLROF: Acronym, Definition: Oh My God & Laughing Out Loud Rolling On Floor….Honestly I felt like you are sitting across from me in my living room and so nice of you to call me buddy at least nothing was copied or fake except I’m the female buddy and too bad that we both are still misunderstanding each others comments, may be I’m speaking Latin English SO go back and read my comments before I explain more to get you over confused.? ?

I think Mark is going to close this one before he gets annoyed. I don’t blame him. You are lucky you were not my student in my previous life.

Cajie,
I lived in Kuwait 16 years and I know their laws. NO down load and guess who does it. I used to follow the ministry of education and information with all imported curriculum books to cut or highlight that pages or paragraphs are against Kuwaiti believes. Today, any law for downloading doesn’t work easy and if you read my comments that I said: THE are studying an International law for Internet users…For my age not being may be like you youngster I can imagine that when you download illegally THERE will be a soft ware deductive to block or infect your system. Already MS does this if you are not the owner of Window 7, you will get a lot of trouble.

Speaking of Alcohol was worse on our time. My brothers don’t drink but when they have foreign guest or when we partied in Sheraton, the waiter had the bottle filling for every one and rich Kuwaiti used to get special flights landing their drink in the dessert. I’m sure you heard something like that from your parents? Besides, even women used it more than me. SO, let us stop the nonsense talk and the double standard.

I didn’t mention that much about money as much about ethics. SO, again at the end EVERY one does what they feel……Sorry it is my walking time early morning, BUT I do researches world wide for such too.

I beleive in the freedom of choice. The freedom to choose to buy a fake or an original or the freedom to download a torrent or to buy the original DVD.

You know what else is the biggest crime regarding this issue? How much these original things actually cost. Now that is a crime…ripping people off! Now if things were at a reasonable cost then people would not resort to a second option.

and no, these items are not “supposed to be” expensive. In fact, nothing is supposed to be expensive. If you get down to the nitty grity of most of these products, the bulk of the price tag is just profit.

I persoanlly blame capitalism for all of this!

TweeZ I was replying to this:

“You know what else is the biggest crime regarding this issue? How much these original things actually cost.”

I assumed by original things you meant original bags.

NS said “You are lucky you were not my student in my previous life.”

You’re a teacher? With your comprehension? Oh dear….

@diesel
he said in his previous life…whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Any way, Mark….I meant all things in general. Shit is getting expensive day by day and for that I blame capitalism.

Capitalism gives people the urge to buy materialistic things. People don’t need an LV bag to survive. They do it because its like a fix so they must fuckin have it! Fake or not!

@ milk
well if you’re gonna get anal about everything that people say then most of our conversations is a form of advertisement.

I don’t buy the fake bags here because I believe it’s wrong, but I would never by anything that is worth a lot of money here either (i.e. a designer handbag, watch, clothing etc). One has no guarantee that it is real and if one ever found out it was a knock-off, there is really nothing you can do because the workers inside the stores don’t have any authority to do anything. I’ll just order it online or wait until I get back to the US.

Ahhh yes, everyones fav topic in Kuwait…..FAKES!!

Move on guys its getting boring always arguing about the same things..

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