At Qout Market this weekend, the local ice cream brand Moo Milk Bar had a very creative kiosk that resembled a sketch. It proved to be really popular with Instagrammers with lots of people taking photos of the kiosk and posting it on their accounts. But, word started spreading around that the creative kiosk idea was actually a copy of the work by the artist Joshua Vides. People started leaving comments that they had stolen the idea and Moo Milk Bar started deleting those comments.
Then yesterday, Moo Milk Bar posted that their kiosk was in fact a homage to Joshua Vides and not a copy. Thats clearly still causing controversy because it opens a lot of doors. Is it ok to copy something as long as you call it a homage? Some people think it is, others think it isn’t and I can understand the arguments for both sides, but I’m curious to what you think?
Here are more pictures to Moo Milk Bars kiosk [Link]
Here is a link to more of Joshua Vides work [Link]
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48 replies on “Copy or Homage?”
1) Doubt the store had any idea this was done before; i guess they just hired an artist to do a concept for them so the hear should go toward the artist.
2) I think they called it s homage only when people pointed it out.
3) I think this will be ok if they took permission from the original artist or mention him as “homage” before anyone call it out. I guess!
heat*
Oh, they know who Joshua Vides is. They mention time and time again that they love his concepts and that even their two shops are designed after his aesthetic (basketball/music/jars/etc). They knew exactly what they were doing.
“Art is theft.” – Pablo Picasso
It’s plagiarism. Whichever way you try to spin it.
I hate to say this, but unfortunately many Kuwaiti concepts lack originality and steal ideas from other places, i.e London and NY. They then complain when others in the GCC knick their concept, which they knicked, initially. This is happening because there’s no one policing them and I doubt intellectual property regs from other countries stand in Kuwait.
Having said all of that, it still makes me happy to see people are getting off their arses and actually working. I’d prefer this to them sitting at home doing nothing. I just wish there was more creativity and not every burger boutique or coffee shop was copy/paste. Before I get roasted, I didn’t say all, just some 🙂
Agreed.
The actual definition of homage is “showing respect” or “honoring” someone or something.
If your booth is meant to be an homage to an artist, you might take a couple of elements of their work, apply it to your own ORIGINAL concept/approach, and explain that you wanted to bring parts of his creative style into our own idea. For example. Or hanging up a print of his work as part of a broader original idea.
Yara is incredibly talented. She has a unique approach to visualizing her ideas. I think it’s disrespectful to both Yara AND Joshua for Moo Milk Bar to ask an artist to “execute” (their words) another artist’s vision. What about Yara’s artistry? Why wouldn’t they just hire Joshua to do it? And did Joshua even know that they were “paying homage” by blatantly copying his design?
The team at Moo Milk Bar are wonderful creative individuals. I’m sure they could have utilized Yara’s artistic vision & ability to create something even more Instagram-worthy than to be condescending and defensive when someone calls them out on the obvious theft.
This is not an homage at all. It’s theft, getting called out, and trying to put a band-aid on the situation.
People started leaving comments that they stole had stolen the idea – i think the word ‘stole’ was a mistake?
that “they stole” had stolen the idea and Moo Milk Bar….
THE STORE ???
fixed
If the store meant for it to be an homage, they would have mentioned it before hand, or posted something on Instagram when they opened. Instead they stated it was a homage after all the backlash which makes me think that they didn’t realize people would recognize the art style. So they’re basically trying to find a loophole out of this controversy that they started themselves.
Honestly if people want cereal flavored dessert or drinks they should buy the original Milk Bar cook book. The recipe is super easy 👌🏻
Seriously. Nothing about what they’re doing is original and it sucks that every layer is being peeled back to show yet more lack of creativity. Now they’re saying their stores at the Avenues & Kuwait City are designed after Joshua’s aesthetic/design style (not the cartoon sketch, other elements of his work).
They are so damn creative otherwise. Why does everything have to be so obviously copied and then called an “homage”?
Homage is what you say when you get caught copying.
It’s not an homage, because the original concept is brand-spanking new, and not a single thing was changed in its local concept.
Therefore, it’s a clear-cut copy.
The question is, should it matter that it’s a blatant copy?
The space was astonishing.
Now that i know that it’s a copy, i’m actually more impressed with the local execution of it all.
The original artist is a creative genius doing something brand new.
I’m sure he is well aware of people copying his work.
I don’t know if _he_ cares that much.
I don’t know if _we_ do, to be honest.
But i’m glad we were made aware of it being a copy.
It’s also very much hit-or-miss, whether someone makes a big deal out of a blatant copy. Because if you bought any clothes from the high-street or from any big furniture store, you’re pretty much buying a direct copy of something else. Not to mention jewelry design and handbags and shoes and electronics.
It’s an unfortunate and rather embarrassing lesson for businesses and creative studios to learn that they will be publicly called-out if they blatantly copy a brand-new and cool and ground-breaking concept.
It’s a risk.
Wait until it’s viral, and then do it. No one would make a fuss.
Having said all that, i’m glad that we now know of the original artist and his work.
It would be amazing to see if a local company hires him to work on specific products / kuwait-centric spaces.
Now _that_ would be super cool.
Of course it should matter that it’s a copy. Maybe Joshua Vides won’t care that someone blatantly ripped off his work because he might already be well off. This isn’t a problem unique to Kuwait, it’s a common issue with artists around a world, constantly trying to avoid being taken advantage of. I’m not trying to knock them because they’re a local concept, I personally want local places to do well and to be creative, because we have that potential in Kuwait.
But this isn’t an issue of “This art looks similar” or “This purse looks similar”, this is like someone trying to make money off of you by selling you a fake Banksy (or whatever artist you like) piece of art. Or an LV knock off purse, whatever. You’re making money off of someone else’s work. The thing is they could have avoided this by coming out before people noticed the similarities and been honest about it, you could love someones work and imitate it, but don’t cover it up with this “homage” BS. Especially since they originally mentioned it was an homage on someone else’s account before mentioning it was one on their own account.
What’s ironic is they hired a local artist who has her own distinct style 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks for expanding the conversation and for clearly explaining why it’s wrong:
“Artists .. are constantly trying to avoid being taken advantage of.”
“Making money off of someone else’s work.”
Totally agree
Thanks for understanding, I was worried that I would come off too aggressive which wasn’t my intention ✌🏻
Walaw .. thank _you_ for having a respectful conversation!
👽 (alien watching messaging board is confused as to how nice we are)
Thanks for expanding the conversation and for clearly explaining why it’s wrong:
“Artists .. are constantly trying to avoid being taken advantage of.”
“Making money off of someone else’s work.”
Totally agree
It almost seems like they didnt expect people to find out and then spun it around to say its a homage. If it was, they should have credited the artist somewhere. Did they give Joshua Vides a shoutout anywhere? I get if they simply re-imagined his artwork, but did they ask permission? Otherwise it plagiarism.
moo milk bar always has wonderfully dope music playing in their avenues store, and their soft serve is just tops… cant we just be grateful for that, yall?
this is exactly why we dont have nice things…
I don’t think there’s a Moo Milkbar in Avenues
There is in Phase 4
No.
Is the original concept actually a store design? is it an aesthetic that was used in a brand or franchise? I’m guessing no and it’s based on an artist’s work, so I don’t think it’s stealing or copying in this case, nevertheless they should have mentioned the artist before everyone pointed it out.
It’s a shop that sells ice cream.
Maybe they copied a theme.
Ppl need to Grow up. If it wasn’t for Moo, most of them wouldn’t even know about that artist.
Ice cream still bomb tho. Much love to Moo, keep copying.
“Ppl need to Grow up. If it wasn’t for Moo, most of them wouldn’t even know about that artist.”
How does that actually work? People were pointing out that they copied Joshua Vide before Moo even came up with this “homage” BS. Moo were hoping no one was familiar with his work and they got caught. Simple as that really.
One day IF you ever work hard to create something that is YOUR own distinct signature style, lets see if you’d still be okay with others claiming it as their own without mentioning you.
If nobody knew about the artist then moo milk wouldnt have been caught.
Apart from great ice cream there is also something called integrity.
This is definitely a copy of the kiosk look and concept, there’s a coffee shop in Seoul , Korea in this style, opened July, 2017
https://mymodernmet.com/cartoon-world-coffee-shop-seoul/,
as for the artist, Joshua Vides is also appologising for not mentioning that he is a big fan of Bramiski, who did it first, after lots of bad comments and critics, and he said that it’s normal for two (or few) artists to have similarities in their work, he also apologized if he offended Braminski’s fans.
I have been watching this silently – the whole debate. I also love Yara ( the artist’s work in general). I think homage is fine if it is done the right way. First of all, you seek out the person whom the original idea belongs to. Ask them that they have inspired you to create your own concept based on his work. He might say he is thrilled by such a homage or he might say he doesn’t appreciate being copied. In art if you copy a person A-Z it’s a copy but his work is now literally an art form, you can take that and spin it as an artist.
Second of all before posting anything – a clear mention should be of the original artist. Where the inspiration is from. I checked everywhere and the only time they mentioned Joshua (without tagging his account on IG) is when there was backlash.
It is really very simple. Give credit. Most artists don’t mind being replicated if they are credited. Don’t do it sneakily. Don’t be hesitant to give others importance. Don’t try to own everything. Making others feel special won’t take away your own limelight.
Love your work!
I have been watching this silently – the whole debate. I also love Yara ( the artist’s work in general). I think homage is fine if it is done the right way. First of all, you seek out the person whom the original idea belongs to. Ask them that they have inspired you to create your own concept based on his work. He might say he is thrilled by such a homage or he might say he doesn’t appreciate being copied. In art if you copy a person A-Z it’s a copy but his work is now literally an art form, you can take that and spin it as an artist.
Second of all before posting anything – a clear mention should be of the original artist. Where the inspiration is from. I checked everywhere and the only time they mentioned Joshua (without tagging his account on IG) is when there was backlash.
It is really very simple. Give credit. Most artists don’t mind being replicated if they are credited. Don’t do it sneakily. Don’t be hesitant to give others importance. Don’t try to own everything. Making others feel special won’t take away your own limelight. The end.
Homage: Paying tribute to someone’s work who is alive or dead, but is often not creating/ performing anymore. Generally with permission and, at the very least, mentioning the person and presenting the event as an homage.
Plagiarism: What Moo Milk Bar did.
Idk why but I’m getting Ed Edd n’ Eddy flashbacks. I love interior decor but the idea of both brands has existed for quite a long time, I’m afraid I don’t have the name for this genre but people that are renowned for this genre of design include Jinil Park (love her work) and Naoki Ono. The best way I can describe this design is “drawing furniture” as named by Jinil park. Basically the idea is like hipster cafes that always look rustic with wood and mismatched tiles, most hipsters follow the same outline but change it slightly. Though it (in my view) may not be a homage I do believe it isn’t a copy either but following a specific design style genre.
It’s like Christian louboutin, he got inspired by nail polish to create red bottom shoes. When copied by other brands he took them to court but wasn’t able to do anything because the idea of painting the bottom of the shoe had been done before and fell under the concept of making the inside of clothing look nicer to emphasise refinement, all he was able to do was put copy rights on his shade of red which can only be legally used by his brand on the bottom of shoes. I might be wrong but that’s just my opinion.
lol you killed your argument with the Louboutin example because Louboutin actually won the case and were able to protect their brands trademark red soles.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/12/christian-louboutin-ecj-ruling-red-soled-shoes
I know he won, but he won the rights to have the bottom side red, which is what I said. He wanted to be the only brand to have the bottom of his shoe painted. Basically he wanted a monopoly on that painting the bottom of the shoe even though alot of high end brands currently paint the bottom of their shoes (eg Harry’s of London). That’s when I said he won rights to his specific red. I meant to say “red design”, you are not allowed to paint the bottom of your shoe red unless the entire shoe is red, Atleast that’s what I remember, I haven’t seen this new report though.
Louboutin wanted to be the only one to be able to use a red sole, that’s why he went to court, he didn’t care if u used blue or pink or whatever, it was the red color that was his signature. This started when Versace (I think it was them) started using red soles.
Oh, I stand corrected. I thought he wanted a monopoly on the shoe bottoms.
isnt there a moo milk bar in the US could be very mistaken,
however i would give them the benefit of the doubt, however the whole deleting comments was what has changed my opinion
Yep, it’s called Milk Bar in NYC owned by a well known dessert chef named Christina Tosi. They also serve cereal flavored milk and dessert.
Similar story, Effect cafe in Maboulah is just a copy of famous japanese coffee brewery called ‘Bluebottle’ – I wonder if this would be claimed to be another homage 🧐
As a designer, I would be a millionaire if I got a dollar for every time a client ask me to design after a place they haven seen somewhere, outside and in Kuwait.
Do I do it, no I don’t. I use the style and make it my own, with our own unique idea’s. It is not stealing, it is inspiration. To copy the exact idea and call it something else, it is copying noting less.
I’d say the bigger issue is moo milk bar stealing their name and brand identity from a small business in canada.
https://www.facebook.com/MooMilkBar/
Whoa.
Who cares????
Now I’m bummed I didn’t pay much attention to the Moo Milk kiosk at Qout Market
I know right? I didn’t come for these comments (“originality” and “the Arab World” are two incongruous words), I came for the pictures!
I hope Moo Milk Bar come back in March! I really want to see that.